Matt is a running footwear designer at Nike, a member of the Jacuzzi Boys Athletic Club, reps team half-tights, and talks about the power of just showing up.

One common theme that weaves throughout every single Conversational Pace that makes its way onto Leggggs is the importance of “community.” While this word means a grip of different things to literally every single person on the planet, one commonality shines through: We need it. Regardless of what “it” is and how you personally define the word, community is necessary for survival. 

Short story real quick: When I first moved to Portland in 2020 and the world immediately shut down, the search for my community, felt not even daunting, but fucking impossible. I found semblances through RunTrill’s #2milesaday6feetaway efforts, but even that left me running solo and reaching for something more tangible. 

Fast forward two years and keeping at the running-while-maintaining-an-active-search-for-community, interesting and incredible people, like pings on radar, just sorta popped up. More on that whole community search in a different post, let’s dive into one of these incredible and interesting people now: Matthew Palmer. 

Matt, or Palmer, depending on familiarity level is one of these community-first and immediately-welcoming people that you know you should have met yesterday. I remember my first interaction and sending a cold intro asking him to be a part of the Conversational Pace: “Yeah, I’d love to take part! I saw the one you did with Lauren too. Seems like fun and a cool way to highlight the local amateur scene.” This is the response you dream of when you try to open that door, and from there it just got better. Group runs, professional intros, and now, A Conversational Pace. LFG. 

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Leggggs: Matt. What is up, dude? Thanks for joining us today. Let’s get it going with the niceties and intros. Who are you, and what do you do?

Matt Palmer: I am Matt Palmer…most of my running friends just call me Palmer (lots of dang Matts out there these days). I’m on Instagram @m.c.palmer and may pop up in a @thejbac post from time to time too.
I am a running footwear designer at Nike. It’s truly a dream job wherein I help enable athletes to achieve their goals by drawing lines that become shoes. I also race middle distance on the track (800/1500/Mile) as part of the Jacuzzi Boys Athletic Club.

Leggggs: Sweet. Seen those JBAC jerseys around the river before, and it’s nice to put some names and faces with the sightings. Let’s talk shotclock… above the game. Your personal mission. If you had to describe yourself in one sentence, it would be…..

MP: Keep showing up and good things will happen. Overcoming inertia to take that first step, to put yourself in a growth environment, is the hard part. Once you get the hammer to the jobsite, swinging it is easy. I’d say my strongest virtues are accountability and consistency, as entirely unsexy as they are.

Keep showing up and good things will happen.

Matt Palmer

Leggggs: Nailed it. And not just because of the hammer reference. Showing up. Keep on it. It makes things happen. So, tell me, man, when and why did you first even get into this whole running thing?

MP: Probably later than you’d think! I started running a few days a week to stay in shape toward the end of college, but didn’t become intentional with training or start doing races until I moved to Portland 10 years ago at age 24 (didn’t run my first track race until I was 26). The combination of working for Nike, being amongst Portland’s vibrant running culture, and rapidly improving my times (initially) formed a cycle of motivation that I’m yet to escape. 

Leggggs: That will definitely do it. Pretty sure they put something in the air here that makes people run. Maybe it’s the total variety of terrain and routes so easily at our disposal. That in mind, what is your favorite type of run?

MP: Speed workouts on the track, for sure. Just give me a handful of fast 300s with plenty of rest, and I am at peace with all the peripheral chaos of the surrounding universe.

Leggggs: How about that peripheral chaos, eh? Not goin anywhere anytime soon. Tell me about your favorite run ever? What, why, where, how, who, when…. all of it, if you want.

MP: I think it would be 2017 Fifth Ave Mile in NYC.

It was my first time in New York City, and it was on the front end of a family vacation (my siblings and parents all live in different places across the US). I believe it was the first time anyone in my family had ever watched me race since I didn’t run in high school or college. I ended up getting second in the B (non-professional) heat while also breaking 4:10 for the first time, winning prize money for the first time, and being on TV for the first time. A lot of lifetime firsts taking place for this little late bloomer in the span of 4 minutes. It was the perfect place to end my season and do a cooldown jog straight to Joe’s Pizza.

Leggggs: That’s incredible. Seriously. Epic setting. Fame and fortune. Pizza. A 4:10… Kudos, man. So if that was the best, what was the worst run?

MP: Probably every Hood To Coast I’ve ever done (I think I’ve run 5 of them?).

Running three long tempo runs within 20 hours on zero sleep is neither my strength nor my joy.

Leggggs: What pulled you through H2C?

MP: The team aspect certainly helped me minimize my self-pity and squeeze out all remaining aerobic capacity at 5am to not let the other 11 runners down.

We had a decade-long Corporate Co-Ed Champion streak to maintain after all! “It won’t fail because of me,” I perhaps muttered deliriously at some point.

Chalk it up to traumatic experience compartmentalization in order to explain how I kept going back the subsequent year, like some forgetful masochist.

Leggggs: Forgetful Masochist is now the name of this interview. I ran Hood to Coast for the first time this past year with a crew out of DC. Had a blast and want to do it again. But what was the biggest learning experience for me was having the right gear. From shoes to blankets, it was a game of comfort strategy.
What is some gear you cnnot live without?

MP: Disclaimer: I work for Nike, so buckle up for some #biased selections.

I am on Team Half Tights, so if I am running fast or racing, it’s gotta be in some Nike Dri-Fit Aeroswift Half Tights.

On the flip side, I am partial to the cheap Nike Everyday crew socks (6-pack, baby!) instead of the fancy ones.

Lastly, once the weather starts to turn in autumn, I am the first person to put gloves on and the last one to take them off in the spring. I don’t have a specific favorite pair, but keeping the fingers cozy is a priority.

Leggggs: I just got a pair of gloves from Nike. I’m a serial offender in forgetting to put gloves on and always find myself burying my digits deep in my palms to the point of cramping. Stoked to not have that happen this year.
I feel like I may know the answer, at least from a brand POV, here, but what are your go-to shoes for different terrains/run types?

MP: I started my running career being all about minimalist shoes, but as I’ve grown in experience (read: gotten old) I’ve steered more toward the traditional trainers. The Pegasus 39 is my latest go-to for everyday road miles (even messed around with them for some 400s while traveling in Europe this summer).
On trails, I split time between the Terra Kiger 8 and  ZoomX Zegama depending how far I’m going.
For workouts, I do most of my tempo/longer intervals in the Zoomx Streakfly. Despite dabbling with “super spikes”, all my track PRs are still in the Mamba 5 so gotta give a special shout-out to that underrated champion.

Leggggs: I mentioned this on Instagram, but those new colors for the Zegamas and Kigers or out of sight, man. If you had a hand in that, bravo. Shifting gears, now, off of… gear… let’s chat about motivation and inspiration for continuing your running journey.

What is a quote or saying or even grunt that you repeat to yourself mid-run when shit is getting real?

MP: During tempos and long intervals, I routinely remind myself in the first half that “it doesn’t get worse from here” meaning that this is as painful as it will be, so if I survived the last rep/mile, I can survive the next one too. Nothing fancy, but a practical reality check.

Additionally, I often say (half-jokingly) that “if it was easy, everyone would do it”. Helps re-align the perspective that the hard part is where the progress is made, where you graduate beyond the ability that was naturally given to you.

It doesn’t get worse from here

Matt Palmer, on running through the tough times

Leggggs: I am nursing an injury right now, and before I went to the doctor, a buddy of mine that knew I was seeing the ortho, texted me and said, simply, “It will only get better after this.” So it’s apropos that you say that, and I couldn’t agree more. I wish I had that mindset last year.

When you’re repeating this saying to yourself, are you with or without headphones? Meaning, are you team headphones or team no headphones when running?

MP: Nope nope. Many of my runs are done with company, so when I am running solo, I take the opportunity to be digitally disconnected and aware of my surroundings/invasive thoughts.

Leggggs: Boom. That’s the best explanation ever.

When I am running solo, I take the opportunity to be digitally disconnected and aware of my surroundings/invasive thoughts.

Matt Palmer, On running without headphones

That said, though, what music gets you amped up to either run or just, fuckin be rad?

MP: This usually occurs in the car en route to either a hard workout or a race. Something flagrantly obscene like “Backseat Freestyle” by Kendrick Lamar or something galactically epic like “Gravity’s Union” by Coheed & Cambria are common choices.

Leggggs: Niiiiiiiiice choices. Added those to the Conversational Pace playlist. When you are just not feelin a run at all, what do you do to get yourself out the door and going?

MP: Having friends to run with, whether a recovery run or workout, brings accountability to show up and also helps the mile/reps pass faster. This was the greatest unlock that inspired me to join a running club and training group. The pull becomes as much about the social connection as it does the physical activity and that can be a real treat.

Leggggs: Only recently really understood what community means in this regard. Seems so obvious, but damn if it isn’t sorta hard to come by.
Okay, we’re getting close to the end here, so let’s talk ideal states: Bucket list places to run…

MP: Was lucky to check one of them off this summer by running some trails in Chamonix, France!

Additionally, I would love to do a workout on the track in St. Moritz, Switzerland and do the Enchantments (in North Cascades) as a single-day trail run eventually.

In the spirit of keeping the dream alive, I hope to get in as many more races at Hayward Field as I can before I hang up the spikes. No place like it.

Leggggs: Saw your IG and noticed you were in Chamonix. I could end the interview now out of sheer jealousy, but we’ll keep going…
Say, I wanted to start running right now. What no-bulllshit advice would you give me to inspire me?

MP: “It doesn’t getting easier, you just get faster, but… you DO get faster”

One of the most rewarding things I find about running is how quantifiable the progress from your dedication and effort can, and most often will, be. And the measure doesn’t need to be relative to others! When you line up at a race, it doesn’t have to be a zero-sum result of winners vs. losers. Everyone has a shot to PR or achieve something new, and the effort of the person next to you will help maximize your own.

Leggggs: Well fucking put, man. Damn. Makes me want to quit and start all over. Let’s get to some gratitude now… Who do you have to thank for where you are in your own running journey?

MP: Firstly, my father, Keith, who blessed me with some natural ability yet didn’t push me into running growing up. Finding it on my own terms as an adult has allowed it to grow sustainably with my life and ambitions. I think I will be doing it for a good while from here on.

The first and only coach I’ve ever had, Elliott Heath. I’ve learned everything I know about training and racing from him and there is no way I would have willingly subjected myself to this many mile repeats or Michigan workouts without the obligation of his training group. He makes me better at what I’m bad at.

Lastly, the Jacuzzi Boys Athletic Club, who give me a balanced perspective on competitive running. They have offered me the high school/college team environment I never had, promoting both the competitive group effect and the post-run beers vibe (just don’t tell them I don’t drink).

Leggggs: Secret is safe with me, Matt. Hear that everyone? Shhhhhhh.

What races do you have coming up?

MP: I’m currently on the mend from a series of Summer “inconveniences”: a strained adductor followed by a rough bout with COVID followed by a sprained ankle (just two weeks ago). So nothing on the immediate horizon, just trying to get back into shape with some strong fall base training.
Would love to take part in Club Cross Country Champs in San Francisco in December (as much as I can ever say I would “love” to run a 10K) and then the main focus would be indoor track meets in the Dempsey at UW leading into another (hopefully) long outdoor track season focusing on 800/1500.

Leggggs: I feel like adductors are a practical joke. Like, “Yeah go ahead and run. You were built for it! … JK!” Anyway…
Anyway – FINALLY: Anything else you want to promote right now? Be as shameless as you want, please.

MP: I also want to highlight a local non-profit, Go The Distance, that promotes recovery from addiction through running. They lead bi-weekly runs for residents of various treatment centers in Portland showing the multi-faceted benefits of running to physical health, mental health, and sense of community. I’ve been volunteering for them for the past year and have gained a new perspective of the difference running can make in someone’s life. Check them out at https://www.gtdgothedistance.org/ or @gtdgothedistance on IG.

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Can’t thank Matt enough for agreeing to do this interview having not known me better than a perfect stranger before saying yes. The insights shared here are quite amazing, and I hope they help anyone reading with any stage of their running journey, or really, just life in general. Pretty adaptable when I think about it…

I am sure you will see him out and about if you’re ever running through Portland. And if you do, don’t hesitate to say hello.

Renee Janssen is the co-owner and race director at Go Beyond Racing, and Founder/Director at Trail Mix Fund.

Back in April, after I first registered for the Haulin Aspen trail marathon, I went down a rabbit hole, or maybe opened Pandora’s Box (?) a bit, on finding more trail races to run. That’s sorta kinda how I found Alpenflo, but it’s most definitely how I found Go Beyond Racing. 

I remember thinking, “Well, if I’m gonna drive 3 hours to Bend, I might as well make the most of it and see if there’s a race at Smith Rock or something. Plus Craig has talked about that race a million times, so I should check it out.” (Craig rules, btw.) Between rewatching every Always Sunny in Philadelphia episode, taking my professional break from the 9-5 life, slipping in  a daily 15 miles of running, and somehow getting really good at making scrambled eggs (I was a trainwreck up until this summer), I started peepin’ the Go Beyond site to see just what the hell they had going on over there. 

Dig, dig, dig and I see that Go Beyond is responsible for the Portland Trail Series, which hit my to-do list after finishing my first run in Forest Park. Also, and maybe even cooler (just as cool), has to be their Lastest Not Fastest “race”: A last-person-standing trail race where runners complete a 4.5-mile loop every hour at Tumalo Canal Historic Area in Central Oregon. I want to do it, but biffed on the timing so will have to wait until next year. In the meantime, we’re going to chat with Renee Janssen, co-owner and race director at Go Beyond Racing as well as the Founder/Director at Trail Mix Fund about an exploration for wildflowers, an unexpected love of History-based podcasts, trail stitches, and another nod to the importance of community (sensing a huge, and unsurprising, theme here). 

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Leggggs: Renee – Thank you so much for agreeing to be a part of the Conversational Pace. Excited to have you. As we do, let’s start with a quick intro, and a bit more about yourself.

Renee Janssen: I am Renee Janssen, @go_renee and @gobeyondracing and at the start and finish line of every Go Beyond Racing race. I am the Co-owner and race director at Go Beyond Racing, and the Founder/Director at Trail Mix Fund.

Leggggs: So glad you’re here. Alright, so, your personal mission: Something that sums you up. What is it?

RJ: I don’t really have one but I believe in being kind and doing good, and getting sweaty and dirty as often as possible.

Leggggs: That is definitely one. Dig it. What brought you to running? Why’d you get into it and when?

RJ: I started running after college. The company I started working for had a Hood to Coast team so I joined the team. I ran roads for a while, got involved with the Red Lizards (a Portland running club), eventually did a couple marathons. I knew I needed to mix things up instead of just pounding pavement all the time and discovered Adventure Racing and that was my thang for a while. I really was passionate about that sport and may still be doing it if I didn’t become a mom (priorities changed). After my kids were born, I got into trail running and haven’t stopped. 

Leggggs: That Hood to Coast race… it’s the stuff of lore. It works itself into so many running stories, I feel like. Or people bring it up somehow. Truly dazzling.

Between the pavement pounding, adventure racing, and trails; what type of run gets you going the most?

RJ: Give me a mountain trail with wildflowers. Throw in some good downhill and I’m in heaven.

Leggggs: Sounds ideaaaaaaaaaaaaal. On that note: Favorite run ever – Where, when, who, why? All that good stuff.

RJ: This is an impossible question for me. I have so many favorites.

The Salmon River trail outside Welches is an all-time favorite. I enjoy taking people on this for their first time. The giant trees, the river flowing beside the trail. There’s just something about this one that I connect with. I also really like the Yocum Ridge trail up Hood. That view when you pop out near the top is so incredible. The Loowit around Mt. St. Helens is also on top (our Volcanic 50 course) – I love the different environments you go through as you make your way around the volcano. Gunsight and Surveyor’s Ridge, that are part of the Wy’east Wonder race, are also favorites. I’ve put in many miles on the Eagle Creek trail in the Gorge. Just too many good trails to pick only one.

Leggggs: I’m trying to be difficult with that question 🙂 . But I love asking, especially local peeps because it clues me into new spots I may not have heard about yet. Case in point: Yocum Ridge. Now to be equally as difficult: What has been the dreaded run / the worst?

RJ: This question stumped me.

Sure, there have been runs I didn’t enjoy as much and many I complained about during. But I have forgotten them because there are so many good ones. I guess if I had to name one, it was a Mt. St. Helens circumnav on the Loowit trail one hot summer day where I ran out of water. Todd had brought some iodine tablets so we could filter and drink from the streams, but I just can’t stand that taste. I went without until my tongue felt huge and stuck to the roof of my mouth when I finally broke down and drank some of his.
But that is really more about a bad moment during a run. That run was still so fun. Doing it with several friends, eating all the huckleberries, laughing together as we laid down creekside and trailside a few times because of the heat. I suppose my worst run was a little one from the house one morning where I tripped and landed on a piece of concrete buried in the trail and sliced open my knee pretty badly. I had to call Todd to come get me because I was dizzy and felt like I was going to pass out while walking home. Ended up getting 11 stitches!

Leggggs: Definitely a bit of a skin crawl thinking about concrete buried in a trail. ::SHUDDER::
On the topic of being prepared, though, what is some gear you cannot live without?

RJ: I’m a running pack girl. I take pictures on my runs so having a pack to stash my phone in is critical. Plus, I get cold easily and often so I like to have a pack to carry a coat and gloves. I find it so much easier to carry my water in a bladder on my back than in bottles in my hands. 

Leggggs: I only recently got acclimated to the running-pack life. Once you get over that initial, “Oh something is there,” it’s oddly quite comforting.
Now on the subject of shoes. This has been way more varied than I thought with past conversations, and that just shows my naivety, I suppose. What are you wearing?

RJ: I like and only own Nike trail shoes. I prefer the Pegasus for the extra cushion these days but run in the Wildhorse often.

Leggggs: Easy as that. Love it.
So when things are getting real during a run, what’s something you repeat to yourself to pull you through the hard parts?

RJ: There’s not one single mantra. It varies depending on the run and my focus. Sometimes it’s about leg turnover so I keep my speed up. Other times I’m telling myself to run my own race and not get caught up in what others are doing. Or I’ll keep reminding myself that it will feel good to finish knowing I gave it everything I could.

Leggggs: Run your own race. I 100% stand behind that and adhere to it.
Now for the dividing line: Headphones or no headphones when running?

RJ: I was a no headphones girl for a really long time, as I preferred to be in the moment and appreciate nature around me. But this spring while training for a race on my own a lot, I really got into listening to podcasts on the Wondery on my long runs. Didn’t know I like history podcasts, but I guess I do!

Leggggs: Sorta bleeds into this question: What’s your pump-up music like?

RJ: We [Go Beyond] like to play Thunderstruck by AC/DC or Ozzy’s Crazy Train at the start of our races. Dog Days Are Over by Florence + The Machine is probably my favorite. 

Leggggs: Alright. Florence making another appearance to the Conversational Pace. I gotta listen to them more…
To stay pumped up, or maybe when you don’t feel like it, what do you do to convince yourself to run when you really don’t want to?

RJ: I’m actually really terrible at this. Really bad. For me, I need to have a goal, a race to train for otherwise I’m the first to say skip it. However! If I am digging deep to get out the door, I remind myself that I never regret going for a run.

Leggggs: Same, same, same. And speaking of goals, where are the bucket list places you want to run?

RJ: Hut-to-hut run in the Dolomites in Italy. Been a dream for way too long; need to just make that happen.

Leggggs: That sounds absolutely epic. I hope you get there! And to maybe inspire others to dream big, what no-bullshit advice would you give. to someone looking to take up running?

RJ: Just start, and find a community. Really, the people in trail running are the best part of the whole thing. It may take a few group runs and some social media digging, but I guarantee that there are people you’ll meet that will become such an inspiring and important part of your life, and it’ll be worth the effort you put into it. You’ll go places you never knew about and develop a confidence in yourself you didn’t know was there.

Leggggs: I did NOT realize how important community was/is to running until very recently. Sounds like a no-duh, but I’ve just been hitting the streets solo for so long. Been awesome to find people that support one another. (No shit, Will…)

Winding down a bit, who do you have to thank for where you are in your running journey?

RJ: Definitely my husband Todd. My running journey is about others’ running journeys. Starting Go Beyond Racing and putting on races together with him gives me so much joy and inspiration. I never anticipated owning my own business, let alone one about running, but it has been the best thing ever. And now that my kids are teenagers and able to help out at the races, it just brings me so much joy.

Leggggs: My running journey is about others’ running journeys. Love this so much. What races are you eyeing in the near or not-so-near future?

RJ: With Go Beyond’s race schedule, we have races and events just about every week from May to late October, so my personal races have to be in early spring or late fall. I had a good race this spring and think I should go out while on top. Kidding! I am not currently signed up for anything so probably should do something about that. I generally don’t like to repeat races because there are so many out there and so many places to see. Guess I need to figure something out. Any recommendations?

Leggggs: Speaking of Go Beyond, what races do you want to shed some more light on?

RJ: I’d like to encourage any new trail runners to try a Portland Trail Series by Go Beyond Racing. These races are low-key events that happen on Wednesday evenings in Portland’s Forest Park and are really a good way to get introduced to the sport and start meeting and connecting with that community. We’ve watched people, over the years, come to these races as their first trail race or first time running in Forest Park, worried about being the last finisher. And sometimes they are, but usually not. And they do a few more races and then they try a longer race, and another, and before long, they are running their first ultra distance.

And for those out there who have already got some trail racing experience and are thinking about their first 50K or 50-mile or even 100-mile, we really love seeing and helping people achieve these goals and have a lot of races where you could make that happen. The nearest opportunities are Elk-Kings 50K & 25K, which is coming up this week, and Smith Rock Ascent (at Smith Rock State Park) is in March next year. Lots more on our website.

Leggggs: I will have to get out to that Smith Rock Ascent. Love that part of the state.

Any parting shot for the Leggggs community?

RJ: I’d like to share that the Trail Mix Fund is out there and people should not be shy about using it. It’s a non-profit organization working to improve diversity in trail racing. It pays the registration fee for people from the BIPOC & LGBTQ+ communities and/or for those who just cannot afford to race. Anyone can apply. Anyone can donate too.

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I can’t thank Renee enough for sharing her time with us today. The sheer amount of positivity and inclusivity coming through here is beyond compare. I haven’t met many runners that have treated the sport/life as an exclusive cool-kids-club (that’s not to say I haven’t met any… you know who you are), but the reinforcement of community through Renee’s words here is perfect.

For more information and to follow along with Renee’s adventures:

• Go Beyond Racing / Main site
• Go Beyond Racing / Instagram
• Renee Janssen / Instagram
• Trailmix Fund / Main site

For the final time, I am going to apologize to Xavier for waking him up during Hood to Coast when my flash accidentally went off in the van. My bad, dude. Glad we’re dude-bros now.

Alright. Feelin better…

Xavier is a rare breed. First, he was one of the dudes I was poured into a van with on the recent Hood to Coast escapade (that’s not rare so much as it is just a set-up). But, the amount of friendly-energy that emanated from the guy was beyond contagious. That immediately struck me: I dig when you meet someone that, right away, you’re enamored by how animated and vigorous they are. 

And finally, to kill time in Portland before we headed out for our official legs, we stopped at a thrift store where Xavier bought a denim jacket. I just thought that was cool. 

(more…)

Got that one song that you turn on and turn all the way fucking up when things are going good? Like, it just hits so hard and you can’t help but scream it so loud that it gives you goosebumps? While putting together this article, Alkaline Trio’s “We’ve Had Enough” came on (which is one of my “one songs”), and it took me right back to a few scream-until-bloody-throat-but-happy moments from summer 2022. One such moment being the drive to, and subsequently home from, Alpenflo Trail Running camp. 

While I’ve already talked ad nauseam as to why this camp was such a tremendous experience, let’s take a moment to peek at who made the experience what it was. Enter: Steven Mortinson. 

(more…)

When I first started this Conversational Pace series (and really Leggggs in general), I really didn’t have a plan for how it would be managed. Would I just reach out to some friendlies? Would I try to get some “big names?” Will anyone care? I still don’t have any concrete answers to any of that, outside of “maybe,” I do know that using this series as a way to connect with and know more about amateur runners in this community has proven pretty rad.

Case in point, Bret Jorgensen. I first stumbled across Bret’s IG as a suggested follow. After peepin a few shots on his feed and watching a couple stories, there was this blend of humanity, adventure, inspiration, and reality that just seemed to make Bret magnetic. So I did what anyone would do: I cold-reached out via DM, asked if he’d be down to be featured on Legggggs, and crossed my fingers. That brings us here. Leggggs, meet Bret. Bret, this is Leggggs.

Leggggs: Let’s kick this off: Who are ya? Where can we find you? And what do you do?

Bret Jorgenson: I’m Bret Jorgensen. On Instagram, I am @bretfromreallife.

I have two jobs, the first is as a coffee roaster for a small specialty coffee company called Velton’s Coffee. We’re hella small, but if I don’t say so myself, also hella good. The second job is for a little running shop in the Magnolia neighborhood in Seattle called Seven Hills Running Shop. We’re a trail-running-focused shop!

When I’m not working, I’m running some city trails, such as Carkeek and Discovery Park, either solo, or usually with friends from the Cowgill Trail Collective.

Leggggs: Seven Hills, sweet. Another shop I need to check out. Ok, so, what’s your personal mission? If you had to sum yourself up in one sentence, what is it?

BJ: There’s a punk band called Flux that has an album named “strive to survive causing the least suffering possible” and I’d say that sums up what I’m all about.

Leggggs: How have I not heard of Flux? That’s a rad summation for anything, especially one’s self. Alright so, when did you first get into running? Why?

BJ: I got into running in late 2018 (I think). In all honesty, I started running because I was always in awe that people could even run. I smoked since high school, and with my new found lung power I thought that I’d give it a try. It was hard as hell, but for some strange reason I kept trying. My wife and I got fitbits, so I set mine to kilometers because it made me feel better about myself when I could finally run one without stopping. Eventually I was able to run 5K, so I switched it to miles. The rest is history!

Leggggs: That metric system, man. It has its merits. So now that you’re into it, what type of run gets you going most? Essentially, what is your fave type of running?

BJ: Adventure runs! Ridgelines! Alpine lakes! Trails trails trails! I love getting into the wilderness and seeing things you have to work to see. I love the feeling of being a couple ridgelines away from the trailhead, and then being snapped back into reality by a plane passing by overhead, reminding me that I do in fact live in a world with people that I will eventually run back into.

Leggggs: Well said. Well…. said. I’ve thought that same thing on the trails. But never knew how to put it so honestly.
Let’s dig in to your favorite run. What, when, who, how, where, etc.

BJ: That is incredibly hard to nail down. I’d say the one that rings loudest in recent memory would be a loop I ran with Cowgill in June in an area called Teanaway. It had it all. Forest, off-trail ridgelines, sorta sketchy and super steep glissading down late season snowpack, 4 summits, some descents that looked straight out of a Salomon video, finished off by 6 miles of runnable downhill that I somehow didn’t feel completely wrecked by.

Leggggs: Conversely, what has been the worst run of your life? What made it terrible and how did you push through (if you did)?

BJ: Ooh! This one is still fresh. The White River 50 Mile in July. It got super hot, and I was 100% not checked in mentally. I just did not want to be there. The stoke was so low. I tried dropping at 10 miles, but my wife and our friend convinced me to keep going. I knew a friend was working at an aid station at more or less the halfway point which was also the Start/Finish area. I decided to make it there at least. So I did and dropped there. In retrospect, it kinda sucks, because I know I had the legs, but the brain was just not in it at all. The silver lining to it all is now I have unfinished business with this race, so I’ll be back next year.

Leggggs: Great mindset, man. That sounds equal parts awful and, I don’t know, educational? Knowing you had the legs, though, what about the gear? What’s some running gear you can’t live without?

BJ: The one thing I have on every run would probably be my watch. I guess I’m a Coros person? I’m rocking a Vertix right now. 

Leggggs: How about shoes: What are you go-to shoes for road / trail / recovery / short runs / long runs?

BJ: My favorite trail shoes right now are my Arc’teryx Norvan LD 3’s! As for road shoes, I’m not actually stoked on anything, but wear Hoka Mach 5’s for general runs, and Rincon 3’s if I want something soft. For recovery, I have some Hoka Slides!

Leggggs: I got those Oofos for recovery, but considered the Hokas. Maybe will check those out when I am through these.
Okay, so, what’s a quote you repeat to yourself mid-run when shit is getting real real?

BJ: There’s a quote from a runner named Ladia Albertson-Junkans that I wrote on a piece of paper and kept in my pocket during the Canyons 100k, which is now sitting on my refrigerator that says “embrace everything as it is, as it comes.” That’s a pretty solid mantra if you ask me.

Leggggs: Yesssssss. I couldn’t agree more. The lightning rod question now: Headphones or no headphones when running?

BJ: Depends on the situation. If it’s a run commute, or something on roads, probably headphones. Trails, probably not.

Leggggs: On the topic of tunes, What’s your pump up music for running? What’s your perfect song?

BJ: For me, the perfect running song is Classical Gas by Mason Williams. It’s an instrumental built around classical guitar, with a super rad chamber-pop sorta horn section. A freakin banger I tell ya what.  As for pump-up music, ironically it’s probably Pictures of Success by Rilo Kiley.

Leggggs: How do you convince yourself to run when you really don’t feel like it?

BJ: Knowing that there’s someone waiting on me usually helps, so during periods of low motivation, I like to hit people up and make a plan to run. Usually early, like 6:30 am or something. That way, I have to wake up and meet them, otherwise, I’m a jerk. Other times I remind myself that I have never once regretted a run. Other times, I try to be kind to myself if the reason for not wanting to run is injury or burn out. I’m trying to do this for a long time, and I’m trying to have it bring joy to my life. If I truly don’t wanna get out, I just won’t. 

Leggggs: That accountability thing is a good trick. Gonna steal that when I make more friends.
What are some of your bucket list places to run?

BJ: Colorado and Peru are the first that come to mind. That and one of the UTMB races.

Leggggs: I’ve been getting some amazing answers to this question, so I am stoked to hear your answer: What no-bullshit advice would you say to inspire a person to start running?

BJ: I don’t know if I’m the sort of person to give anyone advice haha. I am however just so stoked on running, and adventures, that if someone had a little sapling of interest in the sport, they might be inspired to go out and see what it is I’m so damn excited about. Running is one of those weird things that if you’re on the outside looking in, the appeal is not apparent at all. Like, why would anyone wake up early just to “suffer”? Though if someone is already curious, and is looking to maybe get outside and see what it’s all about, I’d suggest volunteering at a local trail race. The community is so welcoming, and honestly just the best thing out there, I don’t see how anyone wouldn’t want to become involved in some capacity. Working aid stations is a gateway drug.

Leggggs: 10000000000% yes. Just be stoked. Who do you have to thank for where you are in your running journey?

BJ: My friend Christopher Gregory. When I felt all alone, and ran by myself all the time, I would join some random group runs I found on meetup and stuff, and I never really felt like I belonged. I eventually did some runs with the Salomon run club, but that ended. I did another group run, and Chris recognized me from the Salomon runs. I was standing all by myself and I heard my name. So I ran with him that night, and eventually met up and did some runs just him and I. We went on to have a great summer of adventures, and now he’s a dear friend of mine. I credit him with breaking me out of my shell. He’s the best dude.

Also my wife, Jenny. She puts up with a lot of early morning alarm clocks, and my constantly stinky self.

Leggggs: Wives, man. Unsung heroes. And speaking of stinky selves, what races are you eyeing in the near or not-near future?

BJ: I was supposed to run my first 100 Sept 17th, but I injured myself a while back and the training took a hit. So I’m running the Teenyway 50k that day instead. I’m eyeing the Gorge Waterfalls 100k next year though. If I can get into CCC, I’ll hella run that.

Leggggs: I am doing the Gorge Waterfalls 50K, so I may see you around there if you do the 100K. Alright, what else do you want to get in while we got some time left?

BJ: Arc’teryx Seattle hooks me up with shoes and other running gear. On top of being a rad brand, they are doing so much to promote races and runners in the PNW, and they are such a valuable resource for community and advice.

Obviously, ya’ll should follow Cowgill Trail Collective on Instagram and Strava. If you ever need your stoke stoked, that is the group to do it!

Seven Hills Running Shop! Even if you’re not trying to buy shoes, if you were to come in and just ask for trail recommendations, or advice for your race or whatever, every single person that works there would be more than excited to help out!

Leggggs: Any parting shots for the Leggggs community?

BJ: I think it is super important to be kind to yourself. So much emphasis is put on “crushing that race” or “ripping that trail.” I think it’s beneficial to remember that everything we do in the running world is totally extracurricular. No one is making us do this, and at the end of the day it’s no one’s business but our own. If anyone makes you feel less than because you’re not running as fast as someone else, or not running the same races everyone in your Strava feed is running, then F them. Ain’t no one got time for that. Running is hard. It’s as simple as that. I’m proud of every single person every single time they show up. Be proud of yourself too.

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Massive thanks to Bret for taking some time to chat with us. Give him a follow on Instagram to stay up to date on his epic adventures.

It’s sorta nuts how people come into your life. Some just seem to have been there all along, while others hold a truly unique “first-time” moment in your cranium, immediately setting the tone for how they will forever be a part of your personal realm. My friend, Eric, is one of these moments. We met in high school. He hated me initially because I had the same Guttermouth shirt as him. (Rightfully so.) Now? Best friends and probably haven’t listened to Guttermouth since. 

Another person that comes to mind is Caryn Sandoval. I first met Caryn when I interviewed her for a job at an agency in San Diego. Of all the applicants, she was the only one that had the guts to tell me she enjoyed smoking weed from time to time. Professional credentials aside (because those were sterling), it was this honesty and seeming lack of care for what I thought that made me tell HR, “Extend the damn offer letter now.” 

As time and jobs go, we both left that agency, I moved to Portland, and we sorta just drifted apart. 

Fast forward ~5 years, and Caryn and I have reconnected over a love of running and the concept of creating something out of nothing. 

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