The ultimate seeker himself, Gordon Clark, took time out of his Patagonia excursion to find some wifi and a screen. From efforts to become more childlike in life to how running can use some more shit-talking (and everything in between), Gordon schools Leggggs on running as more than just a sport.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=GBIBeLcL5y4%3Fsi%3DJIX5UIn0vLhrf5Xe

I don’t really remember how I met Andy Zielinski, but I am very fucking glad I did. From an uncannily similar taste in music (queue: …Burn, Piano Island, Burn!) and an affinity for Land Cruisers, to similar a never-stop-exploring attitude towards life, Andy is one of those dudes you can instantly connect with and feel at ease talking to. Even when he decided to open up about his recent injury, the conversation was just fluid. 

Usually, when I talk to people about their injuries, there’s a light at the end of the tunnel that’s already been seen, approached, and passed through. Usually. Then there are the cases where the wound is still fresh, the bone is still healing, the future is still a bit uncertain. And that’s the story we have here. 

In a tower tag accident only recently, Andy’s running came to a halt when, on a very small patch of ice, his body went one way, his leg the other, and he ended up with a spiral fracture and broken tibia… the worst nightmare. Luckily, in some sort of bizarre-universe-manifestation-stroke-of-luck, the only other person on the trail that day, and who happened to see Andy fall, was an orthopedic nurse. WHAT. 

“There were two primal screams that day on the trail

1. FUUUUUUUCK – training is done
2. FUUUUUUUCK – now I don’t have the mask of running to take me away from the stressors of my day to day.”

While the injury itself is devastating, Andy’s outlook on the future of his running is one we can all take lessons from. From dealing with the isolation of being injured to what this means for the identity and systems we build up as runners, Andy sees this injury as an opportunity to reevaluate his foundations. 

“Life is a beautiful thing – Now you have a few hours given back to you – How do you make those hours meaningful?” 

Andy will return to running. But it may be reframed. And that’s completely okay. 

Thank you, Andy. You will run again. – Will

There’s a spectrum [to motivation]. It makes me happy to just flow along the river here in Munich. I’m not very creative with my routes on my regular runs, I’m just happy to get in the zone, no music, taking it all in. – Christian Brecheis

I don’t know. I guess it was, like, 2 years ago or something (Christian may have to fact-check me here), when my buddy Jeremy (from prior Conversational Pace fame) sent me a link to Near Earth. Along with the link, a note: “Socks. For running.” (Jeremy is a man of few words, which, I suppose mirrors his business ethos nicely… Own fewer, better things. Say fewer, better things.)

Holy shit, tangents. 

If you were able to get through that first section, great. Let’s get into this. I found out about Near Earth a while back, as mentioned. Shortly after, because I’m highly susceptible, I got a few pairs (one white, one black), and immediately began running in them. This was when I realized socks could be better than just… socks. So I looked into the company more and realized that Near Earth is not massive. It’s not got a lot of fanfare around it, but holy fucking shit, it needs it. 

And you see where this is going… We’re talking shop with Christian Brecheis on the Conversational Pace; chatting about brand vision, the absence of a life mantra, time as an unfortunate luxury, the benefits of making it challenging to hang out with yourself, and how we were so so close to going extinct.

Leggggs: Hey Christian. Appreciate you hanging out with us today. Let’s start easy: A little background on you.

Christain Brecheis: Hello! I’m Christian Brecheis. I’m living in Munich with my family. I enjoy pizza making, side country snowboarding and traveling – on all of these things I could spend more days on.

Professionally,  I’m a photographer and not too long ago, launched a running brand adventure called Near Earth.

Leggggs: I like asking because it kinda sets the tone for the rest of the chat: What is your life mantra, or maybe, like a personal mission in life?

CB: No mantra. Life is constant learning, I don’t have a mantra that sounds open-minded for that, I also might change my opinion.

Leggggs: Very, very fair and even-keeled. I support that. Or I don’t. But I do. I need a soundbite for the blog, so if you had to sum yourself up in one sentence… Like, you had to… I’m forcing you to… what is it?

CB: At the intersection of imposter syndrome and first-world problems.

Leggggs: Because I am so utterly lonely*, I’ve been doing some research on movement and how “a body in motion leads to a happier mindset, and overall better mental health” (and feelings of being less lonely).

This heaviness leads me to ask, outside of running, what do you do to keep your body in motion, and your mind and soul happy?

CB: Snowboarding is very high on that list. A day on the mountains, some tree runs in good snow make me sustainably happy. Then again simple pleasures, I can have a perfect day and don’t need much or anything at all. Going to the river with my kids on a sunny day, perfect.

Leggggs: I just went riding for the first time in ~12 years, and every chill-vibe memory came flooding back liek I never left the hill. I get that. Love it. 

Do you feel there’s a relation between finding personal happiness through focusing on your own wellness, and becoming a more active participant in the world at large? 

Said differently, does being happier with yourself makes it easier to be part of community and therefore feel less lonely? How? Why?

CB: I like that you’re researching on movement and how it leads to a happier mindset. When I read about the Greek philosopher Aristotle, I thought he could be a brilliant copywriter for a L.A. well-being startup, but it’s actually more serious, we’ve known and struggled with that for thousands of years. The Greek philosophers were not just theoreticians; they were also interested in practical wisdom gained through life experiences. Physical activities were seen as a means to gain insights into the human condition and to foster a more well-rounded understanding of the world.

I’d say, let’s take this to a bar to have an evening-long conversation exploring that.

Leggggs: Fair enough. I’ll get my ass to Munich then for this evening-long convo. 

When thinking about your own personal wellness, what do you find to be the biggest barrier to taking time for yourself to become a better person for the world at large?

CB: Time became luxurious although it shouldn’t be. We’re all in this rat race. Back in the day, I was in this freelance and athlete bubble, as a creative you weren’t booked every day of the week and a professional snowboarder also had some free time on their hands. The people around me had time for what made them happy. 

That bubble became smaller as we started living a more structured life with kids and school holidays. Now there’s less and less time that’s not already scheduled. 

To make it worse, a lot of parents over-schedule their kids’ lives because they need time for their stuff, usually work. 

But hey, family first if someone is asking.

Time became luxurious, although it shouldn’t be. 

Leggggs: Switching gears slightly, I think we should talk a bit about running in general. It’s sorta part of my audience’s interest, I think. 

How did you get into this whole thing?

CB: I always had an active lifestyle, running was something I did cluelessly hoping to gain some additional fitness. I remember going on runs with a Discman with antiskip that didn’t work. However, I didn’t look at running as a sport when I was in my early 20s. 

I was a snowboard photographer back then, I spent around 100 days on the mountain a year, and my motivation was keeping up with professional athletes on hikes in deep snow while I was carrying a camera backpack.

Leggggs: The specific callout of a discman with anti-skip that didn’t work. Only a few people will understand that, and I appreciate it so much. So what was the motivation to get into running?

CB: When I had knee surgery my rehab plan said, “Easy running for a few minutes,” after 16 weeks. That was the first time running became a goal for me. It took a second surgery and a complete loss of muscle after weeks of absolutely no weight on one of my legs. I had to get back to normal and figured the goal should be regular weekend runs. Nothing crazy, still intimidated by the many weeks I spent on crutches.

Leggggs: Eesh. So… then, now, how often are you running?

CB: Four times a week works well for me. Nothing crazy, I’m dealing with another setback, getting back to that consistency is currently my goal.

Leggggs: Sorry to hear that, dude. One of my fave musicians has a song called, “A Small Setback to a Great Comeback.” Just… I don’t know. God, so… I guess… what’s the motivation to keep going? Especially in the face of these setbacks. 

CB: There’s a spectrum. It makes me happy to just flow along the river here in Munich. I’m not very creative with my routes on my regular runs, I’m just happy to get in the zone, no music, taking it all in. Then there’s the feeling of your fitness when you do a longer run or a trail run.

Leggggs: So then, what’s the trick to keeping your runs interesting?

CB: Definitely not with creative routes on regular runs, I don’t mix it up very much. I like time-based workouts, intensity based on feel – that gives me enough to do. Highlights are the rare trail runs in the Alps, I really enjoy that.

Leggggs: Nice casual, “trail run in the Alps” drop. Well played, sir. How about a favorite run you can share…

CB: That was during my first marathon build-up. With my injury backstory I wasn’t going into it being super confident. Then came a long run with a fast finish. Heart rate was low, I felt strong and I surprised myself with a faster and longer run than anything I had done before. A very beginner kind of experience I guess. But the feeling of that never left me and I still chase it.

Leggggs: That feeling. That’s it right there. Hard to capture and harder to replicate. But dammit if it isn’t just one of the most amazing feelings. 

How about, then, the worst run ever?

CB: Usually I enjoy bringing running gear on trips, to go out and explore. Once I shot advertising for a questionable client: a cruise ship company. I did a few runs on their “running track” which was a joke anyway. While I was on this steel deck, seeing the smoke and fumes come up, it felt so wrong. I stopped. 

Leggggs: If I’ve learned anything from working with a coach, there’s a lost art to the act of “calling it.” Pro move. 

Trail running in the Alps is probably on a lot of peoples’ bucket lists to run, but where is yours?

CB: Maybe the Speed Project some day, but more than a place I’m always stoked to get to go on runs with people I met through running over the past years. 

Leggggs: I will do TSP with you, if ya want. Just sayin. That’s on my list, way up at the top, too. 
Do you have any quote or, er, mantra, that you repeat to yourself during a run when things are getting real?

CB: During the L.A. Marathon there was a patch where people slowed down and I had a low too, so I tried Formula One radio style and to race engineer myself through the crowd: Mode push, mode push. Pick up the pace!

Mode push, mode push. Pick up the pace!

Leggggs: What would you tell someone looking to give running a shot? (Basically, what no-bullshit advice would you say to inspire a person to start running that you can’t get from a Runner’s World or other popular “how-to” articles…)

CB: It seems the most common advice is how to distract yourself, a playlist for your run or how to break up the run so it’s more entertaining. 

I’d go in the opposite direction, run with no music, and make it a challenge to spend time with yourself. It became so rare for us to do one thing without being interrupted.

Make it a challenge to spend time with yourself. It became so rare for us to do one thing without being interrupted. 

Leggggs: Want to let that resonate for a second… Make it a challenge to spend time with yourself. Damn. 

Ok… We spoke to personal wellness and a “body in motion is a happier body,” but what do you find to be the main benefit of running regularly?

CB: You’ll develop a better sense if you really feel good and become better at recreating those circumstances to feel good.

Leggggs: What else do you use your time running to “do?” (win arguments, be creative, zone out, meditate, etc.)

CB: Zone out, and chew on some thoughts. I don’t do much. Sorry, I wish I had a better-sounding esoteric line for you.

Leggggs: That is esoteric enough, my man. Speaking of, do you think there are some lesser-known/unexpected benefits of running that people may not readily see until fully committing to the sport?

CB: The community of this otherwise solo sport.

Leggggs: Well put. 

Speaking of community, I’ve never been to Munich, but it’s on my bucket list, which I am sure everyone says. What’s the running scene like there? High points? Where it can improve? 

CB: I think a lot has happened over the past years. There are some super nice crews and every now and there there’s an unsanctioned race going on.

In general, Germany is so soccer-focused. The sports culture isn’t near anything you see in the US.

Leggggs: Staying in Munich, what keeps you running there? The scenery? The people? The terrain? What about Munich makes it fun to run for you?

CB: I leave my house and am in the park and quickly down by the river after just a block or two. It’s just how easy it is to get a great run in.

Leggggs: Come to Portland. I feel it’s sorta the same way… But what do I know? I run the same route every single day. But if I did break out of my routine, and I moved to Munich tomorrow (it’s not too silly of an idea right now), what should my first steps be in becoming an active participant in the local running scene? (who do I need to talk to? What clubs should I keep an eye out for? Where do you meet new people? etc.?)

CB: DM me of course or just the usual places. Some brands offer running clubs. You’ll find the local and independent ones on Strava and you’ll quickly run into like-minded people here. No problemo.

Leggggs: Bags are half-packed. Just deciding on which singlet… 

Do you feel as though running is an accessible sport? If so, why? If not, what does it have to do to improve its accessibility, if anything?

CB: I sure hope it’s perceived as accessible. It might not always seem so with all the talk, tech and premium gear. Not too long ago people used their most worn out stuff for jogging and really, you don’t need much to get started.

Not too long ago people used their most worn-out stuff for jogging and really, you don’t need much to get started.

Leggggs: I remember my buddy, Jeremy, telling me about Near Earth and saying how amazing the socks were. I promptly ordered a pair (or really, my wife got me a pair for christmas), and I can attest to the quality., but now I can’t unsee it, in the best of ways. 

What is, in your words, Near Earth, if you were to describe to someone with no idea? Why does it exist?

CB: Near Earth is a running brand, the first product is the Distance Running Sock. Developed with an essentialism approach, looking at what’s really needed and making that well. A lot of thought went into this, the goal is that these socks just work for you and don’t need them explained with fancy words.

The goal [of Near Earth] is that these socks just work for you and don’t need them explained with fancy words.

Leggggs: Why focus on socks? What are you hoping to accomplish or add to the world of running through Near Earth?

CB: The simplicity of running is awesome – shoes, shirt and shorts. Socks are a piece of that puzzle. Especially with the leap in development shoes have made in recent years, it just makes sense to pair your shoes with socks that complement the experience you’re getting out of these cushioned midsoles and highly engineered uppers.

Leggggs: That simplicity. I like that you’re peeling it back to the roots. You don’t need much. But what you do have, make it work the best. 

What do you hope people “take away” from Near Earth when they snag a pair of your socks?

CB: When you made the effort for a more considered decision to buy better for something that, to me at least, socks falls into an essentials category. It’s totally fine if you don’t think about it much anymore after the purchase. But if you do take a second look, you might find some details and story ideas on Near Earth socks and I hope it reminds people that a lot of thought and care went into them.

Leggggs: That right there is what separates a brand from a company. And to get deeper into your story, where’d the name come from?

CB: In ancient Egyptian mythology there’s this concept of chaos and balance. I was fascinated by that, perhaps because I felt like I was getting attacked by the god of chaos daily when I developed the socks. The god’s name is mouthful, when I researched some more, I found an asteroid named after the god. The first calculations predicted it would strike the earth, luckily it would just pass us very closely, making it a near-earth object – when I read that, I was just like, “Yup, that’s it.” 

Leggggs: I didn’t go into this interview thinking about our ultimate end as a species, but here we are. Speaking of, what’s the endgame for Near Earth?

CB: Participate in running and making stuff you can rely on.

Leggggs: Anything you can share about what’s on the horizon? 

CB: I really respect the race day kit, the carefully selected gear people pick and trust for their races, you know the sleek and tight-fitting gear, that signals you it’s go time when you put it on. We’re working on something to take it up a notch.

Leggggs: Finally, any shoutouts? 

CB: Near Earth might be the smallest running brand on the planet, but there’s been a ton of support from the running community and beyond. You know who you are, thank you!

---

MASSIVE thank you to Christian for sharing his time, stories, and insights. Throwing the challenge out to you to go be with yourself.

Stay tuned on Near Earth

• IG / near.earth
• web / Near Earth

There are barriers to self-expression for so many that don’t fit into the binary boxes kept in place to protect the comfort and power of the status quo, but I like to believe that radical self-expression can unlock the power of individuals, thus opening the door to revolutionary, innovative and far more interesting collective growth. – Julian Heninger

A good memory: My wife and daughter and I were grabbing beers and pizza at the Crosscut- Warming Hut No.5 in Bend, OR when all of a sudden all these people rolled in that gave off that runner’s vibe, if you know what I mean. But one dude, in particular, was a whole vibe (and I never say “vibe.”) Huge, curly hair, baggy jeans, fanny pack, white chuck taylors (I think, anyway…this was awhile ago), and just, again, vibin around the place. No better way to say it. When I gave the ol’ head-nod as I passed him to pick up my pizza from the food cart outside, he gave me an enthusiastic “WHATS UP MAN!”

Weird to think a few months later, I’d see this same dude in the Sandy High School parking lot repping the Bowerman Hood to Coast team while the Dojo waited for van 1. Fast forward to now, and he’s here, on Leggggs, diving deep into what it means to be human, visceral and unbridled creative expression, radical community inclusion and growth, and the multitude of manners in which the world of running can feel more like a home to those who seek it shelter in it.

This is Julian Heninger.

Leggggs: Julian. Hey man. I am so stoked you’re here. Let’s get into this. Formalities: Who are you? Where are you? What do you do?

Julian Heninger: I’m Julian, based and vibing in Portland, OR. My main hustle is working at Nike. My side hustle is doing graphic design for the Bowerman Track Club. My literal hustle is running for BTC Elite and chasing my potential with my teammates in the strange world of semi-pro running.

Leggggs: Glad to have ya, man. Lotta hustle, metaphoric and literal. Keeping it light still, let’s break the ice with a little joke. Whatcha got?

JH: The following sentence is false. The preceding sentence is true.

Leggggs: How about a personal mantra while I wrap my head around what you just said…

JH: Dattebayo!

Leggggs: And if you had to sum yourself up in one sentence…

JH: I’ll try anything twice.

Leggggs: Boom bam. Alright. Let’s get serious. SERIOUS. Not really. But here: I’ve been reading more on movement, and how a body in motion leads to a happier mindset, and overall better mental health (and feelings of being less lonely, cough cough leggggs’s mission). That said, outside of running, what do you do to keep your body in motion, and your mind and soul happy?

JH: MOVEMENT! I cannot say enough good things about it. I’m a die-hard dance fanatic by both day and night. When you’re locked into hitting splits around the oval, that repetitive elliptically linear movement is definitely something I love getting hyper-focused on, but it can also be limiting if that’s the only motion pattern in which you find joy and purpose.

For me, and I know that dance can be just as rigid and calculated as running, I find that dance is where I can become completely fluid and meaningless. Lost in a groove or a beat, it’s a way to move your body where the only stakes that matter are having a good time and connecting with everything around you. I’ve found this flow state in running to be sure, but dance will always be my first love.

Leggggs: Can attest to the dance. At least what I’ve seen via IG stories. So with that in mind, do you feel there’s a relationship between finding personal happiness through focusing on your own wellness and becoming a more active participant in the world at large? 

Said differently, does being happier with yourself make it easier to be part of a community, and therefore feel less lonely? How? Why?

JH: I believe that being true, happy, and comfortable with yourself, is an integral part to not only individual well-being, but the well-being of a community as a whole.

There are absolutely barriers to self-expression for so many that don’t fit into the binary boxes kept in place to protect the comfort and power of the status quo, but I like to believe that radical self-expression can unlock the power of individuals, thus opening the door to revolutionary, innovative and far more interesting collective growth.

TLDR; everyone misses out on the potential of the true you, most of all yourself!

There are absolutely barriers to self-expression for so many that don’t fit into the binary boxes kept in place to protect the comfort and power of the status quo, but I like to believe that radical self-expression can unlock the power of individuals, thus opening the door to revolutionary, innovative and far more interesting collective growth.

Leggggs: Damn. You just sorta summed up why I started Leggggs in the first place so maybe we can call it quits now. That’s brilliant and absolutely true. That self-awareness, self-confidence… just, that true self and being comfortable with who you are and willing to share it… it’s beautiful.

But finding that inner wellness, that personal touch isn’t always easy. So, when thinking about your own personal wellness, what do you find to be the biggest barrier to taking time for yourself to become a better person for the world at large?

JH: I have found comfort in the compartmentalization of my life. Whether that’s the corporate or elite running space, or the communities in which I engage and invest my time in creatively and compassionately, I feel as though I tend to separate them out into versions of myself that most easily sync with the space I’m in. I’m fortunate to have inspiring people in my life who are their full-ass selves in every situation, and have helped me see the privilege in having an identity in which you are allowed to socially shape shift, free from persecution or prejudice. I’m hoping to break down the barriers holding up the compartments of my life, so I can consistently show up for my communities with a strong set of values and personage no matter the space I’m in.

I’m fortunate to have inspiring people in my life who are their full-ass selves in every situation, and have helped me see the privilege in having an identity in which you are allowed to socially shape shift, free from persecution or prejudice.

Leggggs: Love this so much. Okay, let’s switch gears a bit and give some more context here. Running. Because we are runners. When did you first get into all of this?

JH: I have always loved moving my feet. I had that little boy joy as a kid where I would dance all around the house, up on the couch, and any good mantle. That movement and energy definitely made me a handful, but after trying out a variety of different youth sports, the common denominator was that I was fast, aggressive, and could play the whole game. I had dabbled in Track in middle school, but things clicked when my big brother Massimo persuaded me to try XC my first year of high school, and it was then that I discovered a deep well of inspiration and passion that I began to draw from.

Leggggs: That visual makes me incredibly too happy. I’m probably picturing you as a kid with the same hair, which is amazing.
What was the motivation for getting into running, aside from just the energy?

JH: I think I found something super powerful about the group of weirdos that I did cross country with. Often a collection of the social fringes of athleticism and popularity, we discovered how leaning into, and investing in the community we found ourselves in, uplifted not only our performances in races but our understanding of self and what we were capable of.

Leggggs: And how often are you running?

JH: Been battling some injury cycles the past two years, but when I’m in the groove, running is the daily, sometimes bi-daily ritual that structures my priorities and general ability to be an agreeable human being.

Leggggs: Sorry to hear about the injuries. We may have to talk I Will Never Run Again soon. Why do you keep going?

JH: Woof. This is something I think about a lot these days. My purpose has definitely evolved over the years. In college I was absolutely locked into the rigid metric-based goals of times and places. I discovered the thrill of dumping your self-worth into whether or not you’re a tenth of a second on either side of 14 or 4 minutes, or whether or not you cross the line first.

Euphoric when it works out and you’re on cloud 9, but pretty damn low when you’re in a canyon of self loathing and just want to disappear after coming up short.

Post college when I joined the workforce, my first job was in a Nike shoe factory working 12hr weekend shifts. Trying to train on that schedule was tough and lonely, and racing was ‘pert near impossible given the weekend conflicts. That year taught me the absolute gift and joy running is to me, and I remember talking to my teammate and mentor Carrie Dimoff about my first and only big race during that time-period, which was the US Half Champs I believe. She helped me get to the starting line with an immense feeling of gratitude for being able to finally do the thing I love.

That was a mindset I held for a long time and still do to this day.

What keeps me movin’ and groovin’ now that I’m in the final ⅓ of my twenties, is a much deeper and more expressive relationship to the sport. Discovering my potential has been a consistent motivation for me ever since my proto-masculine god complex developed in high school that many a young boy tends to discover. I still relish in pushing myself beyond what used to be a boundary in running, but I do so now not solely because of the self-validation that comes with it, but for a profound curiosity I’ve developed in riding the limit of yourself for just about as long and hard as you can. Sounds sexual and maybe it is, but there’s something deeply human about wondering if something is possible, and doing everything in your power to prepare yourself to find out.

Those breakthrough moments are intense, beautiful, and lowkey psychedelic. To be tried and tested at the edge of one’s ability bears an intensity that I can’t seem to stay away from. To do so competitively against a field stock full of crazed organisms all vying for the edge is an experience I continue to crave, and still will hopefully, in whatever medium I can, until the day I die.

There’s something deeply human about wondering if something is possible, and doing everything in your power to prepare yourself to find out.

Leggggs: Whoa. Just, Joey Lawrence but for real, whoa. On keeping running exciting beyond that ever-present curiosity, how do you keep it fresh?

JH: I honestly haven’t dabbled in too many running disciplines besides switching up distances every now and then to chase new goals. When it comes to excitement, however, stoke is something I’m rarely lacking in.

There’s a quote from Barbarian Days that I’ve always liked, where William Finnegan describes surfing as an imperative incantation of sorts: “I did not consider, even passingly, that I had a choice when it came to surfing. My enchantment would take me where it would.” This always resonated with me in how I feel about running. It’s less about excitement sometimes, and more so about a deep compulsion that fuels the engine of my days.

Leggggs: We should make some shirts, yeah? Just “don’t lack stoke” or “death to stoke lack” something. Stickers at least. Let’s do it.

Gotta favorite run that comes to mind?

JH: Oof. Another tough question. I think my favorite runs are those loose long sessions where you get lost in a beautiful landscape in the dog days of summer. I typically start those runs with no plan for pace or duration, and if I see a dope rock on the side of a canyon, I’ll stop and climb it.

Conversely, if the single track gets buttery and rolling, opening up the pace and whizzing through the trees like a speeder bike on Endor can absolutely be the vibe too.

Leggggs: Conversely, worst run ever.

JH: Man, I’ve had some rough winter runs in New Hampshire where the biting cold really makes you question the decisions you’ve made to structure your life this way.

One in particular I remember was a #2 bathroom situation (classic) out on a pretty remote road during the winter where doing the business was mandatory and all there was to wipe was rock hard snow, and barren branches, shed of their voluptuous salvatory leaves normally utilized in such a situation. I thought of sacrificing a glove or sock, but given it was probably like 5 degrees F, and I had many miles to go, I wasn’t going to risk a frozen ankle or finger. I think I made the snow work as sort of a frozen bidet vibe, and paid the price of a white hot chafe in the shower at run’s end.

Leggggs: A collective clench just went through the entire Leggggs community, I’m sure. What about a few bucket list places to run.

JH: I had the absolute privilege of getting to race two Ekidens (distance road relays) in Izumo Japan as part of an American Ivy invite team. The pure cultural passion that place has for distance running is unlike anything I’ve experienced. Hands down a big dream of mine to make it back for the Tokyo Marathon or another Ekiden opportunity. Shout out to the Aoyama Gakuin guys and my homies at Toyo U!

Leggggs: What is something you repeat to yourself mid-run when shit is getting real? Something to keep you going…

JH: It used to be “yes you can” which I think I stole from Alexi Pappas, but nowadays it’s less of a word or phrase, and more of a feeling in my body, where I focus on my arm-swing and cadence, and let those simple parameters of motion take control of my focus and guide me into the patient and zen like state needed to get through those tough moments.

I think it’s about hyper-focusing on what you can control in that exact moment, and letting the ability to do so, create a positive momentum in your mindset. When it comes to big competitive challenges, I remember in the Olympic Marathon trials I caught the eye, and of course electric shriek, of my Italian mother with a cardboard “Forza caro mio!” sign, which put me in the reflective headspace of mentally sifting through all the people in my life, and how proud they’d be if I absolutely smashed the race I’m in. It armors you against the doubt and pain you might be in, and braces you for the distance still to come.

Leggggs: Great idea. I like that idea of getting lost in the motions. My pep talk works about half the time, so I will be trying this on my next run.

All of what you’ve said so far could serve as prompts to get running, but what no-bullshit advice would you give to someone looking to run for the first time?

JH: You know that classic proverb “A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step”? I think the core of that message is that the destination is meaningless, the journey is even less important, and what actually matters is that first simple step.

I cannot overstate the power of being able to compel yourself to get out the door for a run. It’s an infectious self-discovery that cascades into all aspects of your life. If you can take that step, and learn how to do so one after the other, you’ll discover an inward potential that will unlock whatever it is you feel called to as a purpose.

The destination is meaningless, the journey is even less important, and what actually matters is that first simple step.

Leggggs: Sorta on that same note, how do you convince YOURself to get out for a run when you really don’t want to?

JH: Those days when you really just can’t get yourself out the door definitely feels inescapable at times. I’d say especially so if/when you’re coming off an injury and what used to come effortlessly and joyfully becomes a trepidatious jog in which you hope you can get away with some miles without putting yourself back.

I often think of the days in which running has not come easy, as the motivation for convincing myself out there, given that past versions of myself who would kill for a 30min pain-free jog. Comes down to gratitude for the profound physicality of repetitive hard training. The physics of running kind of blows my mind sometimes, to be honest. A complex meat bag held up by tensegrity systems, hurling itself forward through syncopated impact, stability structures all firing to keep you upright 🤯…just do a DIERS gait analysis. You’ll thank me later.

Leggggs: Meat bag. Bravo.

Similar to the inspiration for someone running for the first time, what non-Runner’s World-type advice do you have for something starting their journey?

JH: Number one piece of advice I’d give is patient consistency. No matter how many miles you’ve run in your life, or how good you are, if you are starting running for the first time, or coming back from a month or so off, those first two weeks can suck. It is always better to do less more frequently, than more less frequently. Building that pattern and routine for your body at or below what feels like pushing, will set you up to enter the sport with a much more positive relationship and desire to keep going. Definitely not groundbreaking advice, but easily the best I can give.

Leggggs: I fear I’m currently in this mode right now, so I will be taking this advice to heart in a big way.

Earlier here we spoke about a body in motion is a happier body. What do you find to be the main benefit of running regularly?

JH: I think there is a special attunement you find within yourself when running seamlessly slips into your day. Metabolically speaking, it’s like stoking your inner oven to keep your systems humming and buzzing at a constant rate. It’s a sort of consonant harmony that can be fleeting at a high level, and rightfully so. I find it typically comes when you’re over the initial fatigue bump of a training cycle and the intensity of workouts starts to sync with the volume of base you’ve built.

It’s that “firing on all cylinders” feeling that brings a buoyant energy to both life and your runs. A friend once described it well, as if “there’s a hand at your back the whole way.” Those moments are inherently periodic and I try to appreciate them when they come, motivate me when they’re gone, but never take unsustainable advantage of.

Leggggs: What do you use your time running to “do”?

JH: The physical sensation of a rhythmic pendulum pattern is inherently hypnotic, and while the legs do the work, the mind can wander into far-off landscapes of thought and reflection. Striding beyond city limits allows one to open themselves to levels of understanding just as limitless as the natural landscape they traverse. There’s an awesome book called A Philosophy of Walking, where this freedom is described nicely: “To be alone, far from the hubbub. No longer to have to check your social share price daily, calculate your friends, ration your enemies, flatter your protectors, ceaselessly measure your importance in the eyes of fops and imbeciles…no longer assailed by worldly emotions, a heart no longer affected by society’s desires, but surrendered at last to its primary natural beat.” I know that’s a bit over the top, but that turbocharged mindset you find when you get yourself pretty far out, is one where creativity can flourish, and whatever you need to process, solve, express, or release, all becomes possible. 

Sometimes however, it’s nice to simply zone out and surrender the pitter patter of your feet to their primary natural beat.

That turbocharged mindset you find when you get yourself pretty far out, is one where creativity can flourish, and whatever you need to process, solve, express, or release, all becomes possible. 

Leggggs: What are some of the lesser-known/unexpected benefits of running that people may not readily see until fully committing to the sport?

JH: I think people like to joke about the “runner’s high” and what not, but given that I’m no biochemist, I’m not going to break down the compounds flushing your system after sustained commitment to reverent cardiovascular worship. I also can’t speak to what your journey may look like should you venture down the path of consistent training. On an individual level, I think it’s a different experience for everyone. The notion of something being at the core of the experience for you to find however, is what I’m confident in. People have found sobriety, love, heartbreak, obsession, community, solitude, vigor, stamina, and most hopefully peace. Regardless of what awaits, I think it’s worth finding out.

Leggggs: 100% agree. Speaking to community a bit more, now, if a person were looking to join a running community (a local club, an online-only presence, etc.), what are some tips you would have for them to make sure they are finding the right one?

JH: Bank on the people and groups of where you’re headed and want to go. I think running is most powerful when shared with those who make you question and wonder at your own capability. The hardest step is probably the first, which is putting yourself out there, and attempting to find a place in which you feel safe and seen. Local run groups are a great place to start, and from there, narrow it down to the people within those groups that share a similar enough approach to the sport that you can find connection and camaraderie, but different enough that you’ll feel called to growth and new experiences. Specialty running stores or conveniently located coffee shops near trailheads are a good place to look too.

Local run groups are a great place to start, and from there, narrow it down to the people within those groups that share a similar enough approach to the sport that you can find connection and camaraderie, but different enough that you’ll feel called to growth and new experiences.

Leggggs: Believe it or not, we actually ran into one another in the later spring/early summer of 2022 in Bend. I only knew this because first, the hair, second, the style, and third because I saw you again in the parking lot of Sandy High during HTC. Stalker vibes, sorry. Anyway – to the question: What is it about the Portland running community that makes it so… magnetic?

JH: Whether it’s the perfect cocktail of natural beauty and proximity to epic PNW mountains, coastlines, deserts, or a digestibly sizable city in which one can find their footing, Portland definitely calls out to a lot of people.

My favorite thing about Portland is that subcultures exist pretty close to the surface. Whether it’s training for a marathon, boutique barista championships, or custom woodworked canoe crafting, it only takes a few conversations and some motivation to find a group of people trying to do whatever it is you’re interested in and passionate about. It might not exist at the levels of a big city like Chicago, LA, or NYC, and there are still barriers of inclusion and accessibility that need to improve, but I feel like the communities here want to be found in a way.

Running-wise, I think there’s a lot of people here that want to Train with a capital “T.” At the local westside city track, you’ll get hobby joggers doing their ritualistic one mile jog in lane 1, while a rag-tag group of runners from different clubs and parts of town rip their way around the track doing tempo repeats, all with an ultimate frisbee game and soccer practice going on simultaneously on the in-field. It’s beautifully chaotic and I’m honestly here for all of it, even if at times you might cause a heart palpitation when you slingshot the corner on a powerwalker.

Leggggs: It’s what makes Duniway both intimidating and approachable at the same time. Perfectly put.

If you could improve anything about the Portland running scene, or maybe just the entirety of the running world in general, what would it be? Anything at all. YOU HAVE THE POWER.

JH: The running world can come in all different shapes and sizes and expressions and experiences. I think that the prevailing sentiments, perspectives, and power structures however, don’t do the best job of reflecting that diversity. 

If we all acknowledge the purported power of “the sport,” and the opportunities and lessons it brings; to be exclusive with this power is an actively hostile treatment to those excluded from it. I mean, I just waxed poetic about the beauty of this sport for the past 20 questions or so, and have been personally empowered by many life-changing opportunities, realizations, and experiences because of running. If you ask others in the sport, they will probably echo a similar relationship to the structure running has brought to their lives, and the vivacious energy it brings to chasing your dreams. I coach Youth XC and Track with the Bowerman Track Club precisely for this reason. To instill the lessons of self-belief and determination in Youth is an investment in our future, and I can very much confirm that the “kids are alright.” The training groups aren’t split necessarily by age or gender, but rather by where a young athlete finds the most people to run with at the ability level they’re at, and who can inspire them to improve. We definitely try to hold back young pocket rockets who want to rock with the 14yr olds as to not burn anybody out, but the notion that no matter what you look like, personally identify, or other societally loaded label you may carry, running is and should be a place where the often celebrated “simplicity” of the sport is made accessible to all those who feel called to engage in the challenge. 

I ask those who want to gate-keep running (from youth especially), what are you so afraid of? Is it that you know the raw power of what this sport can do, and if made truly accessible, who may be empowered by it? 
For those wanting to embrace the complexity of these questions, two absolute bangers that I’d recommend are Alison Desir’s Running While Black and this fantastic empathetically crafted article from Trail Runner Magazine.

Running is and should be a place where the often celebrated “simplicity” of the sport is made accessible to all those who feel called to engage in the challenge.

Leggggs: If someone were to move to Portland tomorrow, what should their first steps be in becoming an active participant in the running scene? (who do I need to talk to? What clubs should I keep an eye out for? Where do you meet new people? etc.?)

JH: I’m pretty “Portland privileged” in this regard, having grown up near here and having avenues of connection from my time in the sport. I’ve loved seeing the rise in local talent and the coalescing of these groups into a nice little competitive community. For a pretty small town, to have Rose City Track Club, Jacuzzi Boys AC, Bowerman TC of course 😉, Red Lizard, and many more, all groovin’ and shakin’ is pretty sweet to see. There are also many running groups that run out of the cultural hubs that are specialty running stores in any small town.

r/RunPDX is also a poppin place, but always remember to be careful on the internet! I think an awesome way to get to know people is by putting yourself out there in local races as well. You’ll naturally find people around your level in a big enough field, and what’s better than sharing some competitive miles with a new face? A mutually respectful fist bump or hi-five at the finish line could be the start of your next training partner.

Leggggs: TIL r/RunRDX exists. Thank you very much.

Do you feel as though running is an accessible sport? If so, why? If not, what does it have to do to improve its accessibility, if anything?

JH: I touched on this a bit earlier, but I think the tricky thing with Running is it has the potential to be near the pinnacle of inclusion and accessibility, but it will need an evolution and reckoning for it to get out of its own way.  Synthesizing running down to its core values and expressions, it can be easy to say, “Sure! All you need is a pair of shoes!” but we don’t live in a world that simple.

There have been some absolute trailblazers in the paralympic fields, and leaders in crucial discussions around inequality, racism, transphobia, and discrimination, and I am clearly not the person who should be centered or highlighted in those conversations. Change can be painful and disruptive, but we need to center the voices and experiences of those excluded from the sport, to lead the way towards a new “running boom” of which makes up for the past, and carves out a bright new future.

Leggggs: I guess to expand a bit more on this, hopefully without putting you too much on the spot, what do you personally see as the biggest barriers to a person wanting to start running? And what can the running community do to help?

JH: The running community is only strengthened by newcomers in the sport, so I think if you consider yourself in the community, look to others finding joy in something new as fuel to your own fire. I know if I’m in a training rut, seeing younger or newer people in my training group “rise through the ranks” so to speak, is an extremely motivating and uplifting force.

To newcomers in the sport, just know that you have something to bring and offer to a community, and if you bring humble excitement and courage to try something new, you’ll impact everyone around you. Massively systemic forces aside, the barriers to the sport are very real, and getting over the aerobic hump without getting injured and the general question of “when will this not suck?” is a patient difficult process. The whole point however, is that it’s hard. Breaking through that barrier is where that good good lies, and I can promise that it just keeps getting better the more you overcome.

To newcomers in the sport, just know that you have something to bring and offer to a community, and if you bring humble excitement and courage to try something new, you’ll impact everyone around you.

Leggggs: Anything else you want to share with the community?

JH: Yo! Thanks for bringing unfiltered love for this sport into the forefront. Really appreciate the opportunity to brain dump. Check me out on soundcloud fam.

Leggggs: PLEASE EVERYONE GO CHECK JULIAN OUT ON SOUNDCLOUD. It’s really really good.

Where will you be in 5 years?

JH: Finding out how fast I can go, until I start to wonder about how far.

Leggggs: Shoutouts?

JH: Coach Elliott Heath! My brother Massimo. Parents, John and Nina for making me and this body. My lovely partner Sylvja for all she is and does. All my boys in the groupchat. Barry Harwick, Ken James, Scott Spear, John Linman. The rocks, trees, sage, and streams in the Steens Mtn. Wilderness and all they’ve taught me.

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These Conversational Paces continue to turn over stones and unearth truths that have never even crossed my mind before. I’d like to send a HUGE thank you to Julian for sharing his time, stories, and insights with us today. Hope there are some takeaways that resonate with you.

Keep up to date with Julian’s journey:

• Instgram / gaunt.viking
• Soundcloud / Julian Heninger
• Bowerman Track Club / Meet the coach

Focus. Intention. Community. Purpose. These are just a few of the words that pop up in conversation with Drew Hartman as well as become the backbone for how he approaches running, life in general, and everything in between. With an (understandable) hatred of high winds, the town Boulder, CO at his feet, and knowing running is most fun when you find your favorite way to move, this a Conversational Pace with Drew Hartman.

I don’t recall when I first came across Tracksmith, but I do remember when I got my first pair of Tracksmith shorts. I wasn’t faster, but I was faster. It felt so cool to be a part of “that club,” now. Sounds silly, I know, but there was something about “graduating” from the readily-available brands to donning teeny shorts with a little bunny on them.

Call it wanting to associate with brands that best match my personality/beliefs (I don’t have many, tbh), we fast forward a few years and brand veils get pulled back a bit more. I start to stalk follow more athletes, sure, that run for these somewhat-boutique brands I’ve fallen headlong into, as well as the minds behind bringing the brand to life.

Enter Drew Hartman, Tracksmith’s Integrated Marketing Manager and man about town (special nod to a place near and dear to my heart, Boulder, CO). Between keeping the spirit of Tracksmith alive, sharing thoughts on where business and running meet through the podcast, Running the Show, and keeping community and purpose at the heart of why he runs, Drew has a lot to say. So let’s listen.

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Leggggs: Drew. Thank you so much for being with us today. We are stoked to have you on Leggggs. Starting at the top to give everyone an overview: Will you give us a short intro about yourself? Who are ya? Where are you located? What do you do? 

Drew Hartman: I’m Drew Hartman. I recently moved to Boulder, CO after a long stint in Boston where my love of running blossomed. Starting in 2017, I began working part-time in retail for Tracksmith while working in the tech industry. Fast-forward to present day: I work in marketing for Tracksmith and my day to day spans from working on our Go To Market strategy and execution, owning ur podcast/newsletter sponsor strategy, heading up our ambassador program, and leading activations. More conversationally, I like to think that I get to learn from the running industry and running culture for a living.

Leggggs: Tell us something about yourself that isn’t immediately available on your social profiles, etc.

DH: Something you might not know from socials is that I attended law school and have a degree from Northeastern University School of Law. I originally dreamed of being an in-house attorney for a sportswear brand, but pivoted away from that after finishing school.

Leggggs: Any personal mantra you live by?

DH: I wouldn’t say that I live by a personal mantra, but I was challenged by a friend, Chris Madaffari, to think of one word that comes to mind as he snapped a Polaroid of me. The word “forward” came to mind. “Forward,” to me, doesn’t celebrate moving beyond the current stage of celebration or experience. It represents momentum with purpose, which can be applied to the way I run, the way I work, and beyond.

Leggggs: That’s really amazing. How about summing yourself up in one sentence. Whatcha got?

DH: Tough, but I’ll try to write it like a newspaper headline: “Man, who found running later in life, approaches his relationship to running with focus and intention, but with lightheartedness and seeks to learn from the running community and culture in order to lead with purpose.”

Leggggs: Yes. I haven’t had anyone state it like that before, and I love it. It’s perfect. Alright, so I’ve been doing some research on movement and how a body in motion leads to a happier mindset, and overall better mental health (and feelings of being less lonely) – That said, outside of running, what do you do to keep your body in motion, and your mind and soul happy?

DH: Outside of running, I enjoy walking my dog, hiking with my partner, and cycling with friends when I can. I also like boxing! Something I don’t do as often anymore, but still love.

Leggggs: Boxing? I’ve always been curious about that. Sort of on the same tip, do you feel there’s a relation between finding personal happiness through focusing on your own wellness, and becoming a more active participant in the world at large? 
Said differently, does being happier with yourself make it easier to be part of a community and therefore feel less lonely? How? Why?

DH: This is a tough one because I feel like this could be a “chicken or the egg” situation when it comes to personal happiness and community involvement.

I’ve had the fortunate experience to chat with many people who define movement and community differently. While I hope that participating in community creates universal value for all, I know that all communities are not always accessible and approachable.

Rather, I think the emphasis is on finding a community or communities that provide a sense of belonging for you. That sense of community is rooted in shared experience of endurance and social interaction, but belonging is that icing on the cake to see yourself as a part of the group you interact with.

I do believe that a sense of belonging in the endurance community is out there for everyone, but the running community and industry bears the weight of making those avenues to belonging more visible and accessible.

[A] sense of community is rooted in shared experience of endurance and social interaction, but belonging is that icing on the cake to see yourself as a part of the group you interact with.

Drew Hartman on finding community through running

Leggggs: When thinking about your own personal wellness, what do you find to be the biggest barrier to taking time for yourself to become a better person for the world at large?

DH: This feels like a good moment to recognize the role of ego as a barrier. Ego can drive me to believe that my time is too finite or too valuable to do something or take on a challenge and can introduce fear of failure.

ON RUNNING, PERSONALLY

Leggggs: Switching gears slightly… When did you first get into running? What was your motivation?

DH: I ran in high school (2008 – 2010) to stay in shape for soccer. Then I found running for fun in 2012 in training for a half marathon and continued my journey from there.

In the college era of running for fun, I had this idea of running 10 marathons in my 20s as a bucket list kind of thing. It made me feel like running could be a part of my life for the sake of creating a challenge to complete.

Leggggs: How often do you run?

DH: 6-7 days a week.

Leggggs: Why do you continue to run? What is your motivation now?

DH: Running now looks and feels different to me than it did in 2012 – 2019. I now see running as a daily practice. It doesn’t have an end date or a final goal. It doesn’t have a mileage calculator. It’s no longer on my bucket list. Running has become a language of sorts that I speak with myself when I log miles and when I race and it’s a language I speak with others through experiences we share.

Running has become a language of sorts that I speak with myself when I log miles and when I race and it’s a language I speak with others through experiences we share.

Drew Hartman

Leggggs: That’s poetic, man. What do you do to diversify your running? How do you keep it fresh, daily?

DH: Sharing runs with others is the easiest way to make an old place feel new.

Leggggs: What’s been your favorite run to-date?

DH: My favorite kinds of runs always start with friends and end when we’re tired. There’s probably dirt beneath our feet and the weather is warm enough to keep stripping off layers in the middle of the run and throw them in the car trailing us (in this perfect situation, someone is driving next to us with water and fuel). The hills are probably awful and feel like they’ll never end until they do and we ride the descent of the hill that will always be waiting for us. And there’s probably a cold body of water to get the legs in immediately after the run is over.

Leggggs: I did the whole cold-lake-plunge-immediately-after-a-long-hot-run for the first time last summer. HIGHLY recommend. Can’t wait for the warmer weather to do it again.
Best run to worst: What’s been the pits when running?

DH: My worst runs usually involve high wind. There are few things I hate more than high wind. Sometimes the run gets cut short on those days and that’s ok.

Leggggs: What are some of your bucket list places to find yourself running?

DH: I’m really fortunate to run and live in one of the meccas of running in the world. As a result, my bucket list destinations would most likely be joining good friends I’ve yet to share miles with and run with them in their favorite place/route.

Leggggs: Do you have a quote you repeat to yourself mid-run when shit is getting real?

DH: Make your own luck.

Leggggs: If someone were looking to get into for the first time, what would be a piece of advice you’d offer as inspiration?

DH: Running and the feelings we derive from it differ from person to person and from situation to situation. It may not be fun when you start. It may not be fun with certain people. But running can be fun when you find your favorite way to move.

Leggggs: Finally, how do you convince yourself to run when you really don’t feel like it?

DH: Forward. If we think that what we do is a part of something larger, the run may be easier to start. However, I think forcing a run is unnecessary and steals the joy we want to associate with running.

Forward. If we think that what we do is a part of something larger, the run may be easier to start. However, I think forcing a run is unnecessary and steals the joy we want to associate with running.

Drew Hartman

ON THE RUNNING COMMUNITY

Leggggs: Shifting back to the running community on the whole, what would you tell someone looking to give running a shot? Advice maybe they can’t get from a Runner’s World, etc.

DH: Create your ideal environment to run. That may be with others or it may be alone. It may be on pavement or concrete or treadmill or dirt. If you can create what you need to enjoy the run, you may be willing to try it again and maybe try a different environment eventually as well.

Leggggs: We spoke to personal wellness and a “body in motion is a happier body,” but what do you find to be the main benefit of running regularly?

DH: Running is a part of my routine. I prefer the days when I start with a run, even when I’m racing home to make it in time for a 9am meeting. That routine runs deeper than miles in Strava or a sustained heart rate, but it’s fresh air and (hopefully) sunshine and socialization and teamwork, all before I join my team at work everyday.

Leggggs: Kind of an odd question, but what do you use your time running to “do”?

DH: Social runs are time to talk about anything with friends (and hopefully not talking about running). It might extend to recounting our first concert attended and our best concert attended. It might be a time to talk through some difficult topics and seek some advice. However, runs alone are usually brainstorming sessions. I think about a strategy I want to explore at work, a question that has me stumped, or an idea I want to flesh out for a campaign proposal.

Leggggs: What are some of the lesser-known/unexpected benefits of running that people may not readily see until fully committing to the sport?

DH: I wouldn’t say that this is a nuanced opinion at all, but I think when we run more often, we may lose sight of how nice it is and how privileged we may be to be outside.

Leggggs: If a person were looking to join a running community (a local club, an online-only presence, etc.), what are some tips you would have for them to make sure they are finding the right one?

DH: There’s value to being a lurker. I have a biased lens of seeing running as a social endeavor and I want to know if a group I attend could be “my people.” That may mean something different to everyone, but I want to assess if I would want to spend time with group members outside of a running context before diving in fully.

Leggggs: I grew up in Denver and worked for many years in Boulder. I recall those days fondly and miss the whole Boulder scene (especially in the early to mid 2000s). What’s it like now? What keeps you there?

DH: I’m pretty new to Boulder as I moved here in September of 2021 and I feel privileged to be here. I’m still discovering the nuances of the scene here, but the people and the scenery keep me here. I’m fortunate enough to have great friends I get to train with here and the view ain’t bad, even when you’re sucking wind.

Leggggs: What’s the running scene like in Boulder?

DH: One thing I appreciate about the Boulder scene is that there’s always someone better. For someone like myself that doesn’t operate in that top percentile of the sport, I don’t need to obsess over times and VO2 maxes and to make it look like I can run kilometer repeats longer than anyone. You’re running the same roads as Alicia Monson, Edna Kiplagat, Emma Bates, Joe Klecker, etc. You’re never going to steal their crowns or Strava segments. I find that freeing for someone in my position or with a similar relationship to running as myself because there is no posturing to be something to someone else. You can pass these pros on the farm roads and wave, and then see them at the coffee shop afterwards.

Leggggs: If I were to move to Boulder tomorrow, what should my first steps be in becoming an active participant in the Boulder running scene? (who do I need to talk to? What clubs should I keep an eye out for? Where do you meet new people? etc.?)

DH: I’m biased, but you need to come to Soft Hour, hosted by Brian Schroy and Erin Osgood of The Track Club. Every Wednesday morning at 7am, they host a community run that celebrates running easy on soft surfaces. It’s all about conversation, connection, and celebrating the beautiful spaces around us. You’ll catch a smattering of runners from different clubs in Boulder, Denver, and the surrounding towns (and you might see some pro runners there too).

Leggggs: Do you feel as though running is an accessible sport? If so, why? If not, what does it have to do to improve its accessibility, if anything?

DH: I find the opportunity accessible, but not the practicality of running accessible for everyone. I think the narrative of accessibility for running is overblown. I understand that people use this narrative in an encouraging way, but I think we need different phrasing. 

Running may not be accessible because of safety. There are threats of violence to people who are outside alone, threats of harm for those who run in dangerous environments, and risks of injury for those who lack the appropriate equipment to safely participate–just to name a few reasons. 

We may not be able to solve these matters, but community can mitigate the risk. Community can provide education for safe running practices; it can provide a forum to participate with others safely in a group; and it can provide a forum to receive the resources and equipment an athlete requires to flourish. Now to think about how to adequately resource the community: we’ll need like 15 more pages, additional representatives, and a lot more time to suss that out.

Leggggs: What do you personally see as the biggest barriers to a person wanting to start running? And what can the running community do to help?

DH: Safety, education and resources are the biggest barriers in my mind. Touched on those above.

ON RUNNING THE SHOW

Leggggs: You just launched a new podcast, Running the Show, that explores the intersection between running and business. What was the inspiration behind launching this? 

DH: The aim of the podcast was inspired by our personal interests and relationships to the sport. Emma and Evan have experience in the high-performance aspect of training and racing and Evan and I have experience working in the running industry. Through our personal experiences and personal investigation, we’ve been intrigued by exploring the rift between the activity of running and the sport of running. Our goal is to amass opinions and perspectives from industry experts, athletes, brands and cultural leaders in running and to conduct investigations to keep learning.

Leggggs: Why focus on this intersection? What are you hoping to learn?

DH: Our “why” exists in being curious about how the activity of running is touted as “the most accessible sport” does not have sustainable structures for the sport to flourish. There seems to be a rift between the activity and sport and we hope to learn about pain points and gain perspectives from a range of guests. By taking this approach and building this bank of knowledge, we hope to lend perspective to those who can lead change within running. All progress starts from perspective.

Leggggs: What need in the market are you hoping Running the Show can fill?

DH: I hope that we can align and connect with people who love the activity of running and pique their curiosity about what it takes to put on their favorite race or what it takes to make their favorite shoe. For professional athletes and industry professionals, I hope we can provide a platform for how they created their individual brand. For brands, I hope we can help tell their origin story and connect on a common ground with runners globally. So many things!

Leggggs: What is the end goal / 5-year plan for Running the Show?

DH: The goal for us at the outset and the goal will always be to create carefully considered and inspiring content to challenge an audience…and to have fun doing it.

I do hope that we are able to work with the very people we interview–the athletes, industry professionals, the brands, and the cultural leaders–and consult in some way to connect them for progress within the running sphere.

Leggggs: Finally, any shoutouts to anyone?

DH: In running, the shoutouts go to my mentors at Tracksmith for investing in me and to the running community and leaders worldwide for letting me learn and build with them. Personally, the shoutouts go to my partner Caila and my parents for challenging me to always want more.

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The fanboy in me can’t believe Drew joined us for a Conversational Pace, and the runner in me is beyond stoked to have yet another enlightening conversation with another absolutely quintessential member of the running community. Thank you, Drew, for spending time with us today. Truly grateful for your insights and contributions. See you in Boulder soon!

To follow along on Drew’s journey, check out:

• Drew Hartman on IG
• Running the Show Podcast
• Running the Show on IG
• Tracksmith

Constant motion, capturing the moments between the moments, discerning individual wants and needs, an insatiable appreciation for Nike Invincibles, knowing when to “hunt” and when it’s time to lean in and get to work, this is a story of connection diversified, and Somer Kreisman.

I first started seeing Somer Kreisman’s name pop up when sifting through the shots Matt Palmer sent over for his Conversational Pace feature. Since, I have seen Somer’s name all over the place, like when you’re thinking about buying a car and start seeing it everywhere. Except, instead of an overabundance of 4Runners, Somer’s name was attached to some of the most compelling, intimate, and poignant running photography I’ve seen; raw emotion and sheer grit from the highest trails to the flattest tracks (and everywhere in between.)

There are a million words, assumptions, and emotions brimming from Somer’s photos, and there are perhaps equal amounts going on behind the camera. Physical therapist weekdays, race photographer weekends, Pheobe Bridgers appreciator 24/7; it should go without saying that we, as humans, are complicated nuances, but sometimes, we forget. In our day-to-day, we’re bound to our titles and others’ expectations. But when throwing on a pair of Invincibles (or another running shoe), we’re free. This is the story of Somer Kriesman, someone who loves to climb hills.

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Leggggs: Hi Somer! Thanks so much for being a part of this. Stoked we’re getting to chat. First off, short introduction and a little about yourself.

Somer Kreisman: Hi, I’m Somer (pronounced like the season). You can find me on @somerrunner and Strava. Offline you can find me shuffling around Greenlake in Seattle, WA at the crack of dawn and sometimes the not-so-crack of dawn. 

Professionally, I’m a physical therapist during the week and a race photographer during the weekend.

Leggggs: What’s your personal mission? 

SK: The way you do anything is the way you do everything. Essentially this boils down to working hard wherever the ol’ feet are planted. Whether that’s in the clinic, during a race, on a photo assignment, in the gym, etc.

The way you do anything is the way you do everything.

Leggggs: I like simplifying things. So, if you had to sum yourself up in one sentence, what is it?

SK: Clever, but not in a functional way.

Leggggs: Outside of logging miles, what do you do to keep yourself happy? Your mind, body, soul… all that good stuff…

SK: I like to keep busy. I’m at my happiest when I’m in motion or working toward a goal. I derive a lot of joy and purpose from doing things that feel like they contribute positively to the world— whether that’s helping rehabilitate someone’s injury so they can get back to doing what they love, or capturing images of people that make them feel empowered and strong when they see them. Second happiest when snuggling with my whippet, Oakley.

Whenever I’m injured and not able to run, I usually lean pretty heavily on art as an outlet. I got really into film photography again in 2020 when I was dealing when plantar fasciitis (as far as injuries go, this one is a 0/10, do not recommend). I also like reading. Pilates is another great way to keep balanced, particularly as a runner.

Leggggs: When did you first get into running? And most importantly, why?

SK: I think this was in high school (2005ish), training for the P.E. mile. Never ran for a school team in high school or college. 

I really didn’t want to get last place in the P.E. mile, because everyone is always watching that person and I was cripplingly shy in high school. I guess I was motivated by anxiety.

Leggggs: How do you keep your running routine fresh? Or, how often do you diversify your routine?

SK: Lately, I’ve been dividing up the year between Trail Season and Road Season. I think this works great because I’m injury prone and trail season gets me really strong for when it’s time to hit the roads. 

Leggggs: So it’s not the same thing every time?  

SK: Ew, no. Ok, I will acknowledge that I do run around Greenlake a lot but (!!) the paces usually change depending if it’s a workout day or an easy day. And to be fair, I’m usually running in the dark during the week so the location doesn’t really matter since I can’t see anything anyway. On the weekends during Trail Season, I’m usually running up something steep in Issaquah. Uphill tempos are a big fav.

As soon as it gets wet and gross, I’m heading back to the roads. I love running fast, which isn’t always possible on trails depending on the technicality of the terrain. Also not having any ankle insecurities is a nice bonus to road running. I appreciate the differences between both roads and trails, and go in and out of love with each. Whenever one starts to feel stale, I’ll switch to the other. 

Leggggs: Say an alien (they exist) were to touch down in the middle of the NYC Marathon or, say, Cocodona 250, how would you describe running to them, given they have zero idea what it is, and what the hell we’re doing?

SK: You’re essentially just hopping from foot to foot. Wait, do aliens understand hopping? Do aliens even have legggggs? We run because it feels good and hiking sucks (hot take…).

Leggggs: I like it. That said, what is your favorite type of run?

SK: U P H I L L T E M P O. I like climbing.

Leggggs: Follow up – What run takes a bit more motivation to kick your ass into gear to do it?

SK: Any double, any situation. No further questions.

Leggggs: Easy, or hard, as that. Tell me about your favorite run ever? What, why, where, how, who, when…. etc

SK: Last summer I got to run on the Summerland trail at Mt. Rainier National Park with my friend Ryan who is really good at taking pictures and also good at not getting lost. It’s just so beautiful everywhere you look, kind of feels like running through a painting. A really pretty painting. 

[Mt. Rainier National Park] feels like running through a painting. A really pretty painting. 

Leggggs: Conversely, the worst run of your life? What made it terrible and how did you push through (if you did)?

SK: This is an easy one, the first marathon I ever did in 2012. This makes it sound like I’ve done many marathons since, which is super not true (have done one since, and it was not awful). This was Very Bad because the longest run I did leading up to it was 14 miles. I was 18 years old and had no idea how to train for anything. It was The Worst Run Ever because my twin sister passed me at mile 17 like I was standing still. Memorably bad times.

Leggggs: Bucket list places to run?

SK: Grand Canyon! 

Leggggs: Same. Okay, so, follow up – Where has been the most amazing place you’ve logged miles?

SK: Bryce Canyon! Am I a canyon freak or what?

Leggggs: What races are you eyeing in the near or not-near future?

SK: Hmmm. I’d love to run a 50K. But don’t tell any of my friends because they’ve been trying to get me into The Ultras for years now. A race from this year that I would love to run again would be Daybreak’s Backcountry Rise. It is stunning. Do it.

Leggggs: Alright, getting into some gear-related questions now. What’s some running gear you can’t live without? 

SK: Shokz open run headphones, Nike invincibles, gloves, Garmin 945 (the nav is lifesaving).

Leggggs: What is your go-to kit for running on the:

Road?

SK: Compression socks, black spandex shorts, crop top, nike invincible

Trail?

SK: Compression socks, black spandex shorts, crop top, nike trail peg

Raceday?

SK: Compression socks, black spandex shorts, crop top, nike vaporfly if road//trail peg if trail race

Not running and relaxing AFTER said run?

SK: Hoka recovery slides and an XL hoodie/sweatpants. Also, have been known to rock a full-length parka post-run (I’m a Cold Girl). 

Leggggs: Best shoes for road / trail / recovery / short runs / long runs

SK: For the road: nike invincible. Trail: nike trail peg 2/3/4. Recovery: hoka slides

Leggggs: Headphones or no headphones when running?

SK: Yes headphones. 

Leggggs: Follow up – Pump up music for running? What’s your perfect song?

SK: I really like sad music. I also listen to an embarrassing amount of Taylor Swift. Out of the Woods is pretty great. Additionally, anything from High Violet by The National.

Leggggs: Got a quote you repeat to yourself mid-run when shit is getting real? 

SK: Few will hunt. (Extracted from “everybody wants to eat, but few will hunt”) this is a reminder that when things are feeling tough, that’s when it’s time to lean in and go to work. That’s where the magic happens. ✨

When things are feeling tough, that’s when it’s time to lean in and go to work. That’s where the magic happens.

Leggggs: If you weren’t running, what would you be doing to keep your body, mind, and soul active?

SK: Spin biking, rowing, lifting weights, pilates– movement is how the body tells the brain it’s alive – I like to keep it kinetic 🙂

Leggggs: What no-bullshit advice would you say to inspire a person to start running?

SK: I think people have to want it, I would never push a running habit on someone that wasn’t already into it themselves. 

Leggggs: Who do you have to thank for where you are in your running journey?

SK: Definitely all my friends who believe in me WAY more than I ever believe in myself. Bret Jorgensen, Chris Gregory, Ryan Thrower, and Melody Coleman are a few that have really helped me along the way. 

Leggggs: Finally, when you realllllllly don’t want to run, how do you convince yourself to get out there?

SK: I don’t run when I don’t feel like it– and these days are few and far between. The days I don’t want to run are when my body is hurting and I should probably just cross-train or skip a day anyway. It’s harder to talk me into a day off than to get out for a run 9 days out of 10.

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What sticks out to me the most listening to Somer is her honesty when she dissects the intersection between life and running. It boils down, at least here, to movement. Simple, complex, forward, backward, in-place… movement is movement, and movement can ultimately lead to a less lonely existence.

Stay up-to-date with Somer and all her going-ons, photography, running, and other various movements:

• Instagram
• Somerphoto.com
• Strava

A quest for identity, a journey replete with embracing soaring highs, getting comfortable with the crushing lows, pushing through frustration, practicing patience, and focusing on who you run with over where, this is the story of Trevor Hains.

Saying yes to last-minute invites, far-away running camp opportunities, showing up for group runs with clubs you don’t belong to (yet), and essentially getting comfortable with being uncomfortable has paved the path for lifelong friendships, a deeper sense of connection, and feeling less lonely through running.

At this point, I feel like everyone is somewhat sick of me talking about the transcendent experience that was my summer 2022 Hood to Coast adventure. But it’s near impossible to talk about and the power of togetherness, community, and feeling less alone without mentioning such a defining moment in the life of a runner. (While this sounds like a broad-stroke, I have yet to meet one person that has run H2C that hasn’t wholeheartedly agreed that your first time will stick with you for a lifetime.)

Enter Trevor Hains. Trevor and I met in Van 2 during the Hood To Coast 2022 relay. Drawn immediately to his competitive nature, I appreciated the hell out of his grit and blunt fortitude to make our van one of the elite participants even before Sam turned the ignition key. While, “we’re gonna podium,” was mentioned more than once, my fave things about Trevor were his commitment to pushing himself, his die-hard defense of all things Van 2, and really bringing the team together through a palpable intensity he instilled in us to keep us going strong regardless of zapped energy.

It was all or nothing. And in that, it was all of us, together.

This is Trevor Hains.

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Leggggs: TREVOR. Hell yes. What’s up man? Stoked you’re here. Just for some context, and to introduce you a bit, who are you and what do you do?

Trevor Hains: I am Trevor Hains. Find me on Instagram at @trevhains. I currently work as a brand marketer for The Washington Post. More importantly, I also serve as Dojo of Pain’s unofficial/self-proclaimed “Head of Swag.”

Leggggs: What’s your personal mission? Or, if you had to sum yourself up in one sentence, what would it be?

TH: When I decide I want to do something – I go all in. Be great at the things you love. That applies to running, but more importantly to friendships and relationships.

Leggggs: Hell yes. I so appreciate the unbridled “go all in” spirit. Definitely something that kept us afloat, and in front during Hood to Coast. That said, when did you first get into running? Why?

TH: I’ve played team sports at a competitive level my entire life. It wasn’t until college that sports took a back seat and I spent most of my energy figuring out what the fuck I was going to do with my life in the “real world.” I gravitated towards marketing and managed to land a job in NYC. After 6 months in the “real world” I realized that a competitive outlet was seriously missing in my life. 

I knew that, while I liked my job and took it very seriously, it was never going to be my life’s passion. I wasn’t going to set a 5AM alarm and wake up like “LET’S MAKE SOME FUCKING ADS TODAY, BABY!”. I couldn’t just wake up, commute, work, commute, eat, watch tv, sleep, wake up, commute, work, drink, commute, watch tv, eat, sleep. I needed something that I loved doing, something that I could commit to, something that would make me happy, push me mentally and physically, and provide me identity. In 2017, I spectated the NYC Marathon and decided – “yup, I want to do THAT shit. That’s what I’m going to do for the rest of my life.”

So, just like that, I officially became a runner in early 2018. And of course – I went all in. 

Leggggs: I feel like all-too-often, we build up, so greatly, what we do for money, that if one stone slips, the entire structure of who we are crumbles. Glad you found that outlet. Though, makin some fuckin ads baby is not without its merit.

What type of run gets you going most? Fave type of running basically

TH: I love a good track workout – especially a team track workout. I like that the workout has structure and I like that runners of all paces can support one another. As someone who didn’t run in high school or college – I love wearing spikes. Spikes just turn the energy up a notch.

Leggggs: Tell me about your favorite run ever? What, why, where, how, who, when…. Etc

TH: I can’t think of a single “favorite” run, but for me, it’s less about the “where” and more about the “who.”

I’ve run in some beautiful places, but the runs that I’ve enjoyed the most are the runs in which I’m with a solid, hard working crew. Beautiful weather and solid banter. Luckily for me, that’s most days.

[Running] is less about the “where” and more about the “who.”

Trevor hains

Leggggs: Fair enough. Then, how about the worst run of your life? What made it terrible? How did you push through (if you did)?

TH: My last marathon was pretty brutal. Aside from the head wind, the cold, being completely alone, and the lack of aid stations – I felt bad early and I crossed the line broken and pale. My dad caught me at the line and basically carried me inside to get warm. I was in the best shape of my life, I bonked, and I failed. But hey – that’s marathoning for you. Get comfortable with failing. Get back up and go again. 

Get comfortable with failing. Get back up and go again. 

Trevor Hains on overcoming the crushing lows

Leggggs: Such a valid sentiment that we often forget. Shit is going to happen. We are imperfect, fallible creations. Gotta get comfy with losing it all from time to time.

In a completely different line of questioning, what’s some running gear you can’t live without? 

TH: Salt. I sweat – a lot. Not only do I sweat a lot – I have severe salt/sodium loss. I used to really suffer on hot, long runs – muscle cramping, stomach issues, bonking, etc. Adding BASE salt or LMNT drink mix has been essential. 

Bandanas. They just look cool. 

Leggggs: Sweat brothers. I remember, distinctly, Xavier patting my back after my last H2C leg and going, “Jesus, you’re wet.” Good times.

How about shoes? Best shoes for road / trail / recovery / short runs / long runs? All that…

TH: My favorite road race shoe of all time is the first Nike Vaporfly NEXT% – you know, the green colorway. The lock down, the design, the weight, the bounce, the durability. I bought a pair in 2019 and I still do workouts in them after 500+ miles. 

All about the OOFOS post-run.

Leggggs: Team OOFOS for life, man.

Got a quote you repeat to yourself mid-run when shit is getting real? 

TH: I don’t have one. I wish I did. If I’m honest, positive self-talk is something that I struggle with as a runner. I’m incredibly hard on myself. My default setting is not nice. When a race or a workout gets hard, I always push through – but mainly out of frustration. It’s something that I’ve really noticed this year and I’m working hard to address it. 

But, I think “shit will get real” for any runner that is truly pushing their limits. Failure and doubt are guaranteed for those brave enough to toe their threshold.

While I don’t have a quote or a mantra, something that I do try to remind myself pre-race is “Trevor, you love this”.  You love working hard, you love finding your limits, and [while you’d really prefer not to] you love entering the pain cave. The nerves, the pressure, the expectations – you enjoy that. So, go do what you love. 

Leggggs: I so value and appreciate the vulnerability and honesty in that response, Trevor. When I intially crafted that question, I had no idea the nuanced answers I’d get. And sometimes, there’s just no answer. It’s almost harder to operate without a mantra but still find ways to keep yourself going. Fuck yeah, man.

Keeping your head in the game on your runs, though, are you a headphones or no-headphones guy?

TH: I’m a firm believer in no headphones when racing or on a group run. I love the sound of a runners’ stampede. But, music is essential when running indoors on the treadmill or on a solo long run.

Leggggs: Well said. It’s not black and white. Also, I have never heard the term “runners’ stampede” and I am now in love with that. Gonna steal it. (with credit).

Follow up – Pump up music for running? What is your perfect song?

TH: I tend to stray away from the typical loud pump up song. I like these quiet, yet emotionally powerful type songs. It’s not genre-specific and frankly I can’t really describe it. They tend to hit me in some weird part of my brain that makes me want to run through a brick wall.

• “Escape (feat. Hayla)” by Kx5, deadmau5, Kaskade, Hayla
• “Nose to the Grindstone” by Tyler Childers
• “Kyle (i found you)” by Fred again..

Leggggs: Love me some Fred again…

How do you convince yourself to run when you really dont feel like it?

TH: For the most part, I always want to run. But, obviously there are some dark, cold, rainy days in which I would prefer to keep sleeping. I think a few things help push me. First, having others to keep you accountable. It’s hard to make excuses when I have friends/teammates like Xavier (among many others!) who are on time, wearing a huge fucking smile, never complain, and are committed to the workout at hand. 

Second, if I’ve really lost motivation – I’ll just cop an exciting new pair of running shoes. BOOM, problem solved. 

It’s hard to make excuses when I have friends/teammates…who are on time, wearing a huge fucking smile, never complain, and are committed to the workout at hand. 

Leggggs: That Xavier, man. And really everyone I met from Dojo…

What is on your bucket list of places to run?

TH: I’ve always wanted to train in Iten. It also seems like every pro runner was in St. Moritz this season. Other than that, I’d love to hit a workout at the Nike headquarters track.

Leggggs: I can maybe help with the Nike HQ track workout. Next time you’re here, let’s make it a plan.

What no-bullshit advice would you say to inspire a person to start running?

TH: Like most runners, running a marathon was the goal that inspired me to start running. But after completing my first marathon, I waited 4+ years to run my second. I realized (1) a smart runner works their way up in distance and (2) improvements at shorter distances are just as awesome. 

So, I would say to any new runner – don’t get caught up in the marathon (or half marathon) hype. Have fun at shorter distances. Take pride in a new 5k PR. Be patient. Be intentional. 

Leggggs: Really, really well put, man.

Who do you have to thank for where in your running journey?

TH: I have so many people to thank. At the top of that list is Kennedy, who listens to me ramble about training theories, keeps me grounded, and supports me endlessly. When it comes to relationships – running can be an inherently selfish endeavor. It often consumes much of your time, money, and brain power – all of which can lead to friction and resentment. I feel very fortunate to be with someone whose idea of a vacation is going to Berlin … to run a marathon. It’s one thing to have a partner that understands/tolerates your passion, it’s another to have a partner that shares your passion.

Lastly, I wouldn’t be the person/athlete I am today without the influence of my uncle, Rick Schofield. A serial marathoner and long-course triathlete, my Uncle Rick might as well have been Superman. He knew better than anyone the power of endurance sport and its community. My uncle Rick passed away in January 2021. I try really hard to be half as supportive and strong as he was. 

Leggggs: What races are you eyeing in the near or not-near future?

TH: Richmond Half Marathon in November, NYC Half in March, and my first Boston Marathon in April!

Leggggs: Anything else for the community?

TH: Follow my dog’s Instagram → @helloimmeatball. Photos by yours truly. 

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A massive thank you to Trevor for sharing his story. The ups and downs and in-betweens are just further reminders that why we do this (running), how, where, with whom, what kind….. etc, is far more nuanced and individualized than anyone can put a label on. Running isn’t about winning races. But it also is about that. It’s about mental health. But it’s also not. It’s about exploring the world AND hammering a treadmill. Whatever your reason for logging distance is, running is a connection to something greater than the individual… something personalized yet universal. And Trevor reminds us of that here.